Retro-modern fusion gravel build madness. The new Superb!

[M_Chavez]

I'm surprised you just didn't buy a nice used Surly and build it up with some nice fatties.

You're not allowed to call them fatties any more. Or so I'm told, in today's body-positive world.
But yeah, they make the rocking world go round.

Surly....Never thought about them. I'm under the impression that their used framesets are quite overpriced...

 

[M_Chavez]

French Bikes...The ultimate experience for bike wrenching masochists.

Ran into a problem trying to fit the seatpost. The top of the tube measured at 26.2mm (as deep as my calipers would go). I've bought a 25.4 post and a 25.4 to 26.2 shim.
The post is chinercarbon, so it turned out to be 25.3, but OK, that shouldn't be a problem, should it?..
Won't go in.

Decided to clean up the tube - might be some powdercoat stuck inside it, etc.
Carefully ran in a reamer at 25.8mm - it went in for about 5cm without engaging, then ran into thinner tube. I decided not cut any further (don't want to weaken the arse perch area too much). Upped the reamer to 26.0mm, it went in about 30mm, then started cutting, very light, "clean up" cuts at first, then ran into thinner pipe at about 40mm.

@Woz - what was your French post size again?

Still no idea what the original intended seatpost was supposed to be, and whether the top of the tube was reamed (in steps?!)

I have the option of cutting the shim to 40mm long - would that be enough you reckon? Then with a bit of gentle persuasion, the chiner post goes in.,
Alternatively, I can ream deeper, but I'm not keen on removing steel from a high stress area.

 

[Woz]

@M_Chavez - catch up on the Eau de Nil thread for some answers. French and seat-post issues ....... err hell yeah.

I'll get back to you later this evening with other comments, but I'd stop any further reaming for the moment.

 

[M_Chavez]

Thanks. Yeah, I've just cleaned up the light powdercoat "leaks" at the edge of the tube, didn't ream any amount of steel in fear of weakening the tube, but there's been plenty of reaming before me by the looks of it.

 

[dirttorpedo]

You're not allowed to call them fatties any more. Or so I'm told, in today's body-positive world.
But yeah, they make the rocking world go round.

Surly....Never thought about them. I'm under the impression that their used framesets are quite overpriced...

No idea what a used LHT or Straggler would go for on your side of the pond, but boy it would be a much more straight forward operation gravelizing one. Here I think you could get a well used one with cantilever bosses for under $500 and it would take 130 hubs and a 27.2 seat post and run high volume tires easy peasy.

 

[Woz]

No idea what a used LHT or Straggler would go for on your side of the pond, but boy it would be a much more straight forward operation gravelizing one. Here I think you could get a well used one with cantilever bosses for under $500 and it would take 130 hubs and a 27.2 seat post and run high volume tires easy peasy.

Surly is considered a bit exotic over in Europe. There's been a good few discussions with @Imlach and myself about this and the value proposition. Yeah, we get what you are saying to be fair. Thing is here, we can get "fairly" decent lightweight metal in abundance and cheap.

What we save on shelling out for the material, we loose on wrenching "easy bolt on" time because it's all obsolete. If you argue your time is free because it's a hobby, then game on.

PS: Willing to trade a French bike project for a Surly.

 

[Woz]

Thanks. Yeah, I've just cleaned up the light powdercoat "leaks" at the edge of the tube, didn't ream any amount of steel in fear of weakening the tube, but there's been plenty of reaming before me by the looks of it.

Right, loaded with the right amount of wine to waffle on. I'll do my best to factual to start with, then move on with suggestions.

First up, the time period - both our bikes are from the 50s. 50s bikes had steel seat-posts in the "candle stick" format with a bolt on saddle cradle at the top. Seat-posts were short, and only about 50 - 80mm were sticking out. This is worth remembering.

Second up, what I found trawling tontonvelo is that the outer seat-tube diameter was kept standard at 28.0mm. Gas pipe tubing meant either a 25.4mm / 1" or a metrification to 25mm seat-posts. Lightweight tubesets were pretty much universally at 26.2mm seat-post.

Third up, from my own experience wrestling in the asylum with Eau-de-Nil, I found that all the clamping is done at the seat-lug with a very narrow and fine pinch area, to the detriment of someone hamfisted. I observed a few other things. I'm actually not convinced the whole thing was reamed and secondly at least in my case the seat-tube "opened out" with a larger diameter once I got the seat-post in past the initial goose neck so to speak. Moreover, there is a wash of destroyed light weight posts on the web, crimped, bent and fit for the bin. Also found that the lug edges were extremely sharp (which I filed down) and I would even go as far as saying the French may have exploited this deliberately to actually (and lightly) crimp, score the post and help lock it into position.

Fourth up, there have been oddities of course. Vintage French shims are about. In fact I had one in my hand today. They are very short (40 - 50mm) and god only knows what diameters they are for, because nothing is marked on them. Sound familiar all this?

You can forget hang-ups like I had coming from the MTB side that a shim should be 65mm - 80mm - because the seat-post post by design should be made of steel with a virtually sod all extension



Chapter one over. Solution mode.

 

[Woz]

Decided to clean up the tube - might be some powdercoat stuck inside it, etc.
Carefully ran in a reamer at 25.8mm - it went in for about 5cm without engaging, then ran into thinner tube. I decided not cut any further (don't want to weaken the arse perch area too much). Upped the reamer to 26.0mm, it went in about 30mm, then started cutting, very light, "clean up" cuts at first, then ran into thinner pipe at about 40mm.

Based on what I said above, and to the best of my knowledge that is, it sounds like the tubeset may be a hybrid between lightweight and gas pipe. My advice is:

a) Check for constant outside diameter of the seat-tube - it should be 28.0mm and may even go thinner at the top.
b) No French builder worth their salt would entertain putting a shim on a seat-lug that isn't perfectly square at the top. If the seat-lug is scolloped and curved, I'm pretty sure you are in the lightweight frame building territory. I honestly think this frame is.
c) Be absolutely sure of your reamer dimensions. A gas pipe tube wall thickness will stand reaming, but skinny lightweight stuff probably won't too much.
d) Consider your body weight and how much seat-post is expected to come out for a good bike fit. There are reasonable limits here.

I would say ,dump that Chinese seat-post out of tolerance (and out of tolerance totally the wrong way for this) and pick a Kalloy or Sakae AL seat-post to start with as a reference to work from. Continue reaming very very slowly, and watch just how much fillings are falling in the BB shell. Work slow, constantly check. 50mm of shim depth I reckon would be good enough.

 

[dirttorpedo]

Surly is considered a bit exotic over in Europe. There's been a good few discussions with @Imlach and myself about this and the value proposition. Yeah, we get what you are saying to be fair. Thing is here, we can get "fairly" decent lightweight metal in abundance and cheap.

What we save on shelling out for the material, we loose on wrenching "easy bolt on" time because it's all obsolete. If you argue your time is free because it's a hobby, then game on.

PS: Willing to trade a French bike project for a Surly.

I get that but French frames must be an absolute PITA to deal with - I won't touch a Gitane, Motobecane or Peugeot over here unless its one of the later British standard ones. Here we have gobs of quality Asian steel for cheap, but you can get a well used Surly at very nice prices and they have such lovely wide stays. My other thought would be a vintage touring bike with good clearance or a late 80's hybrid.

 

[Woz]

@dirttorpedo - love your observations. PITA they are. You are right. I wouldn't touch them with a stick covered in shit, and I think M_Chavez wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. We aren't talking about frames from the fab three here. We are talking handmade regional / local French frames not banged out in the masses here. The type of frame which makes you drunk just looking at them because so much lunch time Pernod was put in them. It's the stuff of wet dreams like watching a French a film as a youth. And it's good high quality cheap metal built well. It's just that nothing fits.

Bike Wrenching is about the journey, and not necessarily the end product right? Give us hope. Say a prayer. Buy a round of drinks.