Retro-modern fusion gravel build madness. The new Superb!

[Mickeyspinn]

The off-the-shelf 1" standard low-stack threadless headset plus the addition of two M25x1 nuts to make a snug modern threaded headset very promising. A bit like those French BB conversion cups, if a French conversion headset kit was made it would be perfect.

Perhaps this is something for @Mickeyspinn to think about. Get the blue prints and spec. and do some prototypes?

Suffice to say .....on it....

 

[Woz]

Great!

You would need to base it on something I suppose. Something recommended, available and at reasonable cost.

That Neco looked really promising because of the split crown race going from 26.4 to 27.0mm

 

[M_Chavez]

There was a problem with the neco.
The seller contacted me to say that they only have 30.0 cups in stock (998 sets of them) and not a single 30.2.
I ended up going for a J&L branded headset that looks identical to neco. It probably is a Neco.
Alternative would be to take a cane creek EC30 and dremel through the 26.6 steel race. Once split, it should hug a 27.0 steerer just OK. The bearing might sit a smidge higher than on 26.6 but should be a workable solution.

There's also EC30 27.0/26.6 alloy split rings available to buy from Aliexpress.


I can easily get 4mm stainless washers with 24mm ID, but working with stainless is yet another degree of masochism, and might be above my pain threshold. Not having a lathe, a washer is the way to go.

At least a couple weeks for the tap to arrive, so I have time to think about it.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

There was a problem with the neco.
The seller contacted me to say that they only have 30.0 cups in stock (998 sets of them) and not a single 30.2.
I ended up going for a J&L branded headset that looks identical to neco. It probably is a Neco.
Alternative would be to take a cane creek EC30 and dremel through the 26.6 steel race. Once split, it should hug a 27.0 steerer just OK. The bearing might sit a smidge higher than on 26.6 but should be a workable solution.

There's also EC30 27.0/26.6 alloy split rings available to buy from Aliexpress.


I can easily get 4mm stainless washers with 24mm ID, but working with stainless is yet another degree of masochism, and might be above my pain threshold. Not having a lathe, a washer is the way to go.

At least a couple weeks for the tap to arrive, so I have time to think about it.

Putting a split in the crown race even for a sealed bearing not a great idea....
Makes simple sense if it's 26.5 cut just to take it down to 26.4...

 

[Mickeyspinn]

@M_Chavez
Any chance to save me going back through the thread reading loads of this that and the other ideas can you just put the facts down...my brain hurts

Your forks crown race cut size.
Headtube internal diam/race size
Stack height needed.

 

[Woz]

@Jonny69

Yeah, I did put "madness" in the title

- 27.0 race instead of 26.6 ISO
- 25x1 French thread - confirmed
- 25.0 French steerer instead of 25.4 ISO
- 30.2 cups in line with ISO. [JIS that comes with 27.0 races has 30.0 so I was investigating using a JIS headset]
- 22.0 French quill instead of 22.2
- Stack height about 36mm. I originally thought 37, but that was being optimistic. Some French bikes supposedly come with as low as 33 (!).

Options:
1) Find some original prehistoric French headset that's a perfect match, is serviceable condition & at affordable price.
2) If can find a French Tange Levin headset in serviceable condition, the bottom race can be replaced with a modern Tange JIS one with no compatibility issues.
3) If you're not afraid to combine parts of different headsets in the same cup [generally, believed to be a very bad idea], there are options to combine the aforementioned JIS race with a different cup.
4) Run EC30 threadless via one of the hacks.

@Mickeyspinn

 

[Mickeyspinn]

@Mickeyspinn

Ah that's better....

 

[Woz]

If you are running out of stack height with x2 nuts and a washer, perhaps something on these lines with a pointy grub screw is the way to go:


Perhaps there is also an advantage in easier manufacturing?

 

[Mickeyspinn]

If you are running out of stack height with x2 nuts and a washer, perhaps something on these lines with a pointy grub screw is the way to go:

View attachment 653050
Perhaps there is also an advantage in easier manufacturing?

Hmm maybe...maybe not it's another process...well two actually! I'm thinking the way to reduce stack height is combining the bottom nut and compression ring into one. Should be able to gain extra thread inside the compression ring maybe 3 full threads....which should give a really happy shoulder for the sealed bearing to lean on aswell! Then one thread off the top nut and there's maybe 4mm lost in stack height !?

 

[M_Chavez]

I think you're overthinking this fellers. Neco and Cane creek are low stacks anyway. So two washers 3 or 4mm thick should do.

@Woz - Would you be so kind to do a wee search on French ebay for French BB taps? 35 x 1. In case there's anything reasonable. My attempt via ebay.co.uk only returns a couple US listings.

@Mickeyspinn how bad do you think stainless will be to tap on a scale of 1 to 10? I don't have a 24mm bit to drill out alloy, and my woodworking machinery is way too inaccurate for the job anyway.
I'd rather avoid the need for custom machined parts if I'm looking for a workaround that simplifies things for everyone. And I might need some machining help in the nearest future anyway