Replacing Sachs and Huret rear derailleur

[lennm]

Hi,

After my old commuter bike literally falling apart, I decided to buy a bike via Gumtree. I wanted something with character and something I could work on. Having never done any kind of bike repairs, except for replacing a tire and inner tube, I didnt realise what I got myself into.

I bought Doris (her new name ) and then took her to our independent bike shop. After taking a look at it, I was told that it would cost me about £150 to get her working again (labour and parts). I was told that the following needed to be done:

• Replace Sachs and Huret rear derailleur

• Replace bottom bracket

• Replace rear wheel

• Tighten brakes

From that list, the only thing I can do is tighten the brakes. The other bits I would like to be able to do, but lack the expertise. I am happy to try figure this out by watching videos/try and talk to the bike shop person again.

I am always a bit sceptical of shop assistants advising me to replace something, as I cant shake the feeling that they are trying to make the maximum amount of money from me. However, looking at the bike, the rear derailleur is definitely broken and needs replacing.

The bike shop person told me that I have a vintage derailleur, which is not used/built anymore, a Sachs and Huret rear derailleur. I did a little research and I realised that they have produced a number of derailleurs. Having no knowledge about derailleurs, I am keen not to buy the wrong one. Can you offer any advice?

Which type of Sachs and Huret rear derailleur do I have?
Where can I buy a replacement (ebay?)?
How much is a reasonable price?
Is it difficult to replace, or can I do it myself?

Furthermore, the bottom bracket does seem broken too. I was told that I have a special, vintage bottom bracket too (making it more difficult to replace. She called it a 'cotter pin bottom bracket', which I understand is more difficult to replace. Again, I have no idea about bottom brackets and am therefore struggling to buy the right parts. Can you give any advice as to which bracket to buy? Are there different sizes?

Here are some pictures of Doris

Derailleur 1

Derailleur 2

Bottom bracket

Thanks in advance guys,
Len

 

[Old Ned]

Where is the rear derailleur broken? I can't say that I am totally familiar with these models but it all seems to be there. You could replace it with virtually any make of mechanism that will work with a 5/6/7 speed chain - and there are lots to choose from! Quite often suitable gears can be found on the Road For Sale part of the forum.

The bottom bracket is another matter. Again, what is the actual problem with it? It may only need stripping down and cleaning, new ball bearings,regreasing and reassembly - but if you've never done this before it could be quite a daunting process. If the bearing surfaces on the cups and axle are worn then a new one would be best, making sure that the correct length axle is acquired. This should be stamped into the centre of the axle.

To do the above you will need to remove the cotter pins by removing (or just loosening them until they are flush with the tops of the threads) the nuts and washers and tapping (hammering usually!) the pins out. Always support the axle end of the crank while doing this or damage could potentially be done to the bearings etc. (although if they've had it then it may not be a problem - but you won't know this until it is all stripped down.

The cups will have to be taken out if worn. They screw in and out, preferably with the use of the proper tools - and the handing of the threads is different each side.

Stick around on here and someone else will add his/her bit and eventually you'll either be full of info. and enthusiasm - or completely mind-boggled!

This is what the inside of a cotterpin BB is like. Don't panic!!

 

[pigman]

Where is the rear derailleur broken? I can't say that I am totally familiar with these models but it all seems to be there.

I thought that too. But looking at it, there is no chain and the jockey cage doesn't seem to have sprung back so will have no tension. Could just need a strip and clean, maybe it needs a spring, maybe a new mech, but from the shop's point of view a new mech is the most codt effective if they are fixing it.

To the Op, Sheldon Brown's website is a good start point on all things bicycle

 

[lennm]

Re:

My bad, didn't add all the details about the derailleur.

It does indeed not spring back. I am not sure if it 'just' needs a new spring, or if it needs to be totally replaced.

I was told that, as it is an old derailleur and attached to the bike in a special way, I cannot use any derailleur - especially not the new ones. Is this true?

I have already taken the chain off, as it literally wasn't moving anymore. It was very rusty.

It looks like quite a big task to replace the bracket. I am not sure exactly what is wrong, she just spun the wheel a couple of times (might have made some noise) and then determined that it needed replacing.

Given my level of expertise, or lack off, I think I might just get it done professionally. The only issue I have, is that she said it would cost at least £150, which to me seems steep. Does anybody know if this is reasonable? Is it worth me buying the new parts and then asking them to put it all together?

 

[Markone]

Re: Re:

My bad, didn't add all the details about the derailleur.

It does indeed not spring back. I am not sure if it 'just' needs a new spring, or if it needs to be totally replaced.

I was told that, as it is an old derailleur and attached to the bike in a special way, I cannot use any derailleur - especially not the new ones. Is this true?

I have already taken the chain off, as it literally wasn't moving anymore. It was very rusty.

It looks like quite a big task to replace the bracket. I am not sure exactly what is wrong, she just spun the wheel a couple of times (might have made some noise) and then determined that it needed replacing.

Given my level of expertise, or lack off, I think I might just get it done professionally. The only issue I have, is that she said it would cost at least £150, which to me seems steep. Does anybody know if this is reasonable? Is it worth me buying the new parts and then asking them to put it all together?

I would encourage you to do the work yourself and not bother with your local bike shop.

Anyone who can read and stay awake,(both of which you are doubtless capable of) can with a little patience repair or replace any of the above that you mention very cheaply from parts sourced,either through this forum or ebay and enjoy the learning experience as you go along.With the skills you pick up on the way the servicing of a bicycle will then in the future hold no fear or mystery for you.

None of the above that you mention is difficult to do.I taught myself in my pre-teen years to strip and reassemble bicycles from finds on dumps,It really is child's play!

It is only bicycle science and not rocket!

Do not despair,as many on here ,I am sure will offer help and advice as you progress.

 

[torqueless]

Re:

I was told that, as it is an old derailleur and attached to the bike in a special way, I cannot use any derailleur - especially not the new ones. Is this true?

This bike dates from a time when cheap bikes had a rear derailleur, but no 'hanger' for it integral to the frame, so the derailleur includes a bolt-on hanger which attaches to the rear dropout. These days even cheap frames have integral hangers, so demand for the derailleurs with bolt-on hangers has dwindled to almost nothing, and the bike shop has to source one for you. That is my interpretation, anyway.

I'll be blunt- About thirty years ago this Sachs Huret was the cheapest derailleur that money could buy, and in itself is evidence that the other components on this bike fall into the same category. That doesn't mean it is bad- It is probably all solid stuff that in good order would get you from A to B without pretension, but attempting to renovate it to useable condition after thirty years of neglect reveals some of the economic irrationalities inherent in the bike business, or any other business.

The bike shop would likely be intending to replace whole defective components with new ones. They are not going to carefully dismantle an obsolete budget derailleur, source replacement bits for anything broken, lubricate it and put it back together. The parts and labour bill for that would probably buy you three of the rootingest tootingest yesteryear super-derailleurs any of us ever dreamed of, if we can find them.

So, if you care at all, you do it yourself. From a standing start, you are probably into at least fifty quids worth of new (or old) components and fifty quids worth of bicycle tools, so in that sense the bike shop quote does not seem that unreasonable.

I agree entirely with the sentiment in Markone's post, but it is easy to forget/take for granted the 'infrastructure' that needs to be in place before you can attempt it, which is basically a workshop's worth of tools and what used to be called: 'sundries'.. i.e. all the stuff you need which is not strictly included in 'parts' or 'tools', but ends up costing as much as either of them. I too had dismantled and reassembled bikes as far as is possible before I was an 'adult', but my Dad had a shed which contained about everything I needed to do it.

So really, as far as I can see, the correct response to: "I've just bought this old bike..." is: "Do you have access to a solidly anchored engineer's vice?" Not intended as discouragement... just sayin'..

 

[pigman]

Re:

I don't know where you live, but in Sheffield we have a bike co-op/bike recycling place where you can rent workshop space at something like £8/hour. There's the bike stand and all the tools you'll need plus a number of qualified mechanics who floor-walk to assist if necessary. Just probably worth a google check if youre in a big city to see if you can access similar

 

[hamster]

ON that derailleur the return spring hooks onto a one of a couple of lugs to adjust tension. Check first if it is engaged.
I have an identical one in the bits box that you can have for the cost of postage otherwise.