Rene HERSE Cycles tech info.

[grantoury]

From the article linked below about tyre widths in the '24 TdF, widths were 26 to 30mm, which I would still consider a narrow tyre that is optimal for paved roads. In my experience the larger tyre cushions and moves along the road better than a heavily pumped up 25mm i.e. it has less rolling resistance. But moving to a 40mm means loss in other areas like weight and inertia. Tests have just measured rolling resistance. As is explained in another article linked to below. I made this point earlier in this thread, not to rain on Jan Heine's parade or talk down on wider tyres which I happen to love, but just to point out a simple physical principle that everyone who rides bicycles on the road will encounter. Which is that there is a trade off between wider tyres and narrower ones in rolling resistance and weight and inertia. Supple tyres like the Rene Herse will improve on this but will never cancel it out. No animosity from my part, just an appeal for common sense.

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...e/every-tire-teams-using-tour-de-france-2024/

https://en.brujulabike.com/der-poel-on-the-trend-of-riding-increasingly-wider-tires-i-think-there-is-a-limit/#:~:text=In fact, recent tests suggest,already using 30 mm tires.

 

[grantoury]

Also, I have the Challenge Strade Bianchi 30mm and it is an exceptional tyre, the bike just floats on our smooth Dutch bicycle lanes.

 

[Tsundere]

Aerodynamics will have an effect too no doubt.

It's still amazing to me that 26 seems to be the new 'narrow', 28 is the new standard and 30s are growing in popularity. I distinctly remember people scoffing at 23mm tyres back in the day.

 

[Titiritero]

I have no idea on physics and rolling resistance. But I know that the cycling industry likes to push something, then go to the other extreme, and then settle somewhere in the middle as "best of both worlds", selling us 3 "solutions" instead of just 1.

-MTB tires had 2" tires. Then came fat bikes, and 4" tires were the solution to any surface. Then "plus" tires at 3" were sold as the best of both worlds, and now it seems the dust is settling at around 2.5", which I predict will keep reducing back to 2.2", at least on the hardtail/fast MTB side of the spectrum.
-In gravel bikes, everything started with the 33mm of cross bikes, and the race came to 40mm, then 45mm, and now some "pros" are pushing for 2.2" tires (57mm), which forces some compromises if you want to keep narrow road cranks. I predict soon people will realize that 40mm are more appropriate if you want to keep your gravel bike agile, and if you really need the 2.2" you are just better off with a hardtail mtb...

So we'll see where the Rene Herse tires evolve. As an owner of mostly 26" bikes, I love the development of new stuff in this size, same as Ultradinamico or Stridsland are doing. What I wonder is how many existing 26" frames can accept 2.3" tires or wider, since new 26" bikes are extremely niche...

 

[Tsundere]

I have no idea on physics and rolling resistance. But I know that the cycling industry likes to push something, then go to the other extreme, and then settle somewhere in the middle as "best of both worlds", selling us 3 "solutions" instead of just 1.

-MTB tires had 2" tires. Then came fat bikes, and 4" tires were the solution to any surface. Then "plus" tires at 3" were sold as the best of both worlds, and now it seems the dust is settling at around 2.5", which I predict will keep reducing back to 2.2", at least on the hardtail/fast MTB side of the spectrum.
-In gravel bikes, everything started with the 33mm of cross bikes, and the race came to 40mm, then 45mm, and now some "pros" are pushing for 2.2" tires (57mm), which forces some compromises if you want to keep narrow road cranks. I predict soon people will realize that 40mm are more appropriate if you want to keep your gravel bike agile, and if you really need the 2.2" you are just better off with a hardtail mtb...

So we'll see where the Rene Herse tires evolve. As an owner of mostly 26" bikes, I love the development of new stuff in this size, same as Ultradinamico or Stridsland are doing. What I wonder is how many existing 26" frames can accept 2.3" tires or wider, since new 26" bikes are extremely niche...

Recreational riders really don't need to worry too much about what's happening out there at the cutting edge, except out of academic interest. In the sphere of professional road racing new ideas are always being tested, and many experiments fail or are otherwise abandoned.

That some world class athlete is getting better performance from a race tuned bike with a specific tyre on a particular stretch of road is almost irrelevant to most of us in the real world. For the same reasons we don't put Formula One slicks on our family cars, we know that practicality and comfort are generally more important than pure performance gains, especially so when we lack the horsepower required to take advantage of those potential gains.

What really matters is how much enjoyment we get from our bikes, and that means striking a balance across multiple dimensions, of which tyre choice is only one. The industry is very good at convincing us that just one more £60 spend will make our bikes perfect.

In truth the greatest fun most of us ever had on two wheels involved poorly set up kid sized BSO's.

 

[Retrorockit]

I consult both RH, and BRR for testing. They run parallel mostly. JH uses the same hill, and in still air. His test would include Aero , weight and whatever other variables might apply. He's a racer, and he cares very much about what the clock has to say. If the Aero loss outweighed the rolling resistance that would be revealed in the RH test, but not the BRR lab.
The tendency to have flats increases with supple tires. If your flats come form bashing your tires against things these would not be for you. Normal punctures can be dealt with using sealant inside the tubes. I came across this from desert riders in an Ebike forum. It worked very well for me in urban Ebiking. I'm trying to implement it with Latex racing tubes on my XC bike. Triathletes seem to have been doing this for a while also.
The cost of handmade, lightweight racing parts has always been high. Tires are the one place where the performance gain can be huge. In my Ebike experience steel wires from blown out truck tires will go through any tire or liner. Sealant deals with those slow leaks easily. He now has a sealant for use in TPU tubes.
Rolling resistance helps at all speeds, and will be much more important than aero for slower riders.
My experience with his wide soft tires is that they do everything he says they do.

 

[Canuk]

This thread is turning out to be a free advert for Jan Heine. Same as it was in the beginning pages. It's incredibly tedious and dull.

Nothing to see here, nice hearing from you but another long goodbye about 'fat tyres' we do not need. Ciao.

 

[Woz]

Aerodynamics will have an effect too no doubt.

It's still amazing to me that 26 seems to be the new 'narrow', 28 is the new standard and 30s are growing in popularity. I distinctly remember people scoffing at 23mm tyres back in the day.

Another thing is that road racing as also evolved. Stronger teams today invariably means mopping up, compared to multi-talented / multi-disciplined strong riders who would go for broke when chance, instinct and strength allowed it. Everything from long alone break-aways to smaller group sprint finishes.

It's only last year I had the dis-pleasure to remove 19C and 21C tyres from a family member who did represent GB in the mid-60s on hard stage races. Old school to the last but I did feel it was stupid but talking to him he said "I need to feel the road".

What I'm trying to say is that for competitive cycling, and if you are sprinter expected to launch from a pack of wolves on a programmed "sprint stage" I can't imagine anything more than 28c will be of benefit. Narrow tyres means lighter by physical definition and more responsive to rider input.

 

[grantoury]

"I need to feel the road"

I love that explanation and it says a lot about road cycling of the past, where experience and the feel of individual riders informed choices in material. Those narrow tyres didn't come out of nowhere and road racing started out on much larger tyres. I think a narrow tyre gives a fleet footed and fast feel that is very appealing and I think riders preferred it over compliance, in part because of mental and physical toughness and I wouldn't consider those choices ridiculous perse.



(Tour of 1927)

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

I love that explanation and it says a lot about road cycling of the past, where experience and the feel of individual riders informed choices in material. Those narrow tyres didn't come out of nowhere and road racing started out on much larger tyres. I think a narrow tyre gives a fleet footed and fast feel that is very appealing and I think riders preferred it over compliance, in part because of mental and physical toughness and I wouldn't consider those choices ridiculous perse.

View attachment 954862

(Tour of 1927)

I know I can go faster on a 25 than a 35. Tubs are fast. As a m/c rider the quote from @Woz "I need to feel the road" speaks to me. His family member was a very good rider, harder than all of us put together.