Rear brakes; vestigal appendix or essential organ?

[MJN]

Er , no. The rear brake helps transfer weight to the front wheel, initially increasing it's grip, and helping slow you quicker than front alone, on any surface.
He doesn't think transferring body weight helps? He's talking out of his arse. I'm not familiar with sheldon brown, but if this is the sort of stuff he comes up with, I'm not missing much. :?

A little respect please,he died last year and was regarded a a useful fountain of knowledge and all round good bloke.

 

[PurpleFrog]

Er , no. The rear brake helps transfer weight to the front wheel, initially increasing it's grip, and helping slow you quicker than front alone, on any surface.

Quite possibly. I still haven't had time to draw force diagrams.

He doesn't think transferring body weight helps? He's talking out of his arse. I'm not familiar with sheldon brown, but if this is the sort of stuff he comes up with, I'm not missing much. :?

He was a mechanic rather than a mountainbiker.

 

[pete_mcc]

Nice thing with roads is they tend to be very long and straight so you only use brakes to slow you down. Off road tends to be a bit more wiggly and brakes can be used to steer and slow down.

I love taking tight corners with a hit of rear brake and I would certainly never use a front brake if I was going down a very steep drop off - you'd be over the bars in a second.

Sheldon was really only taking about road riding, but elements of his words can be applied to mountain bikes where front brake should still be the dominant one (hence DH/FR bikes have a larger disc or more pots up front). It is really horses for courses though as BMX racers often only use rear brakes, a trials rider would be a bit stuck without either, fixed riders effectively only have a rear...

 

[utahdog2003]

Hm. I hadn't thought of that... According to SB's theory, the same should hold on and off road, surely? .

Not really, remember that the road surface is usually much more consistant for braking feel feedback,

Why does that matter? SB was saying that using the front brake ALONE avoided the need for what he saw as the main cause of feedback - rear brake skidding.

and (unless your roads are crazy rough) there usually isn't nearly the same level of rider body-weight shift occuring during riding a road bike.

SB also wrote - or cited - an article saying the shifting body weight for braking as semi-pointless.

but I'm a double fister off road, feathering each by feel regardless of any proposed bias from SB or anyone else. Off road, I'm holding levers, and my brain just does the rest, like breathing.

That's what I did on and off, until SB got into my head a year ago - I haven't ridden many miles since then and now I am riding every day again, I think he was wrong. I even think that rear brake might exert a torque that helps counter the bike's tendency to nose stand, increasing the effectiveness of the rear brake.

My weight distribution comments were more centered around the involuntary shifting of rider weight during rough trail riding, not voluntarily loading your weight rearward on a road bike. Dominant Front wheel braking off road is a recipe for a nice warm plate of ass-over-teacup. Both brakes must be utilized and feathered as the feel of the bike and traction varies wheel to wheel. Fluidity and adaptability are maybe the only two words I'd ever use to explain how to shed speed on a mountain bike. Which brake do you need to use? I can't answer that from a keyboard, only you as rider can answer that with your hands, and even then much of that decision making is subconscious.

As for Sheldon's comments, Simple explanation for all of this, really. I think SB was attemptiong to debunk the newbie-novice idea that rear brakes are the dominant brakes under all circumstances, for all bicycle types. If on a road bike, the front brake was all you needed all the time, then I don't think Sram, Campy or Shimano would even make rear brakes for their Red, Record, and Dura Ace lines, as surely Lance and the boys wouldn't be lugging all that weight up Ventoux if it was pointless?

I stick to my original statements. On a road bike, I favor front brake for power and rear brake for control and balance. Off road, I favor whatever the hell will keep my bike upright and on the trail and my face off that rock!

 

[ferrus]

One thing for sure is that front brake use is a delicate affair, so needs a set up with plenty of modulation (a nice squidgy feel) for maximum controllable power.

 

[suburbanreuben]

Proper use of the rear is also a delicate affair, to maintain fluidity , control and speed. Also to ride light and avoid damaging the trail.
Thinking about it, though, Roadies really don't need a rear brake. The exceptions being city centre riders, especially Criterium racers, whose braking requirements are more akin to those of mountain bikers.

 

[Tnega]

Rear wheel braking does indeed increase front wheel traction and subsequently the amount of braking force that the front brake can apply.
Front wheel braking does indeed lessen rear wheel traction and subsequently the amount of braking force that the back brake can apply.
Everything else comes down to personal riding style,bike setup, confidence and the terrain your riding on.
Pesronally my rear brake is set up so as to be really difficult to lock under most circumstances, If I feel the need to lock it I either use the front brake to releive some rear wheel traction and thus enable rear wheel locking, or I use my weight to impart a degree of latteral shift to the bike to enable the rear to lock, both whilst feathering the rear.
Indeed as has been mentioned, horses for courses.

 

[barry2017]

And to think, all my life I've just squeezed my brake levers whenever I wanted to slow down or stop!
I'll have to be more careful now, I didn't realise it was so complicated.

 

[utahdog2003]

And to think, all my life I've just squeezed my brake levers whenever I wanted to slow down or stop!
I'll have to be more careful now, I didn't realise it was so complicated.

 

[currie]

having been an avid [brake pun] biker for a good few years, i always laugh [to myself] when i hear novice riders, and parents telling their kids to

'only use the back brake, if you use the front you will go over the handlebars'

i sometimes wonder what it is in their head that makes them so dead set on this, has everyone had a over the bars fail? yeah i have on really big tricky stuff, but not your average ride around a housing estate! in my experience, it just doesnt happen, and if you think its going to you lean back or let up! i just cant imagine riding a bike without shifting weight. its a odd concept to me! i remember doing it on my very first bike, leaning the bike all the way to the side and countering it.

simpletons!