Question about steel frame quality

[Oldskool26er]

Tubing diameter will also play a roll. The thicker the tubing the thinner the walls can be, for a lighter frame that is still stiff and responsive.

As other have said, I also think geo is very important and you'll want to get a bike with geo that matches the type of riding you want to do. For example 2 of my steels, both lugged, one with tange prestige tubing and one with larger diameter true temper OXII tubing are both quality steel frames, but ride very differently not so much because of the difference in steel, but mainly because of the geo.



My MB1 with Tange Prestige is built for more XC type trails, fast, compliant and very comfortable, but is not so good when the trail gets rough, on tight twisty trails or for bunny hoping and jumping. My singletrack with True Temper OXII is built for aggressive trail riding, very responsive, stiff, quick and easy to maneuver and a blast to jump and hop, but not as good on climbs, long stretches keeping speed or xc type rides where you want to be in a less aggressive riding position.



Another very important thing you may want to consider is how big of a tire you can fit on the frame. Frames from the 80's, like my MB1 often can't fit much more than a 2" tire, while my singletrack can easily fit a high volume 2.5" tire and can even fit a 27.5" in the rear (need a different fork to fit 27.5" in the front). For XC type riding the skinnier light tire works great, but for rough trail riding, fast cornering and jumping the high volume tire is a huge improvement in performance and can be run with much lower PSI for better traction and shock absorption. The high volume tire also provides about an 1' increase in diameter and runs just over 27", while the 2" wide tire is more of a true 26".

If your looking to convert an older steel frame into more of a modern rider, then the tire size the bike can fit might be something to consider since running high volume tires are one of the big advantages of modern frames.

 

[eri]

I’ve been trying out random peoples mtb since the early 90s and only a small number of frames stood out to me as being particularly awesome FOR ME.

The ti/steel mongoose tomac
rock lobster
Serotta max nivacrom
A custom Rodriguez
A Waterford road bike
A high end masi

The bikes fit me, were light and had an enchanting flex.

Each of them had a smooth feel in the front, a slight springy give in the pedals and a solid smooth feeling rear triangle. It’s what I like.

I’ve been 75-80kg for past 30 years and have a decent sprint, even today I can hold 1600watts for 10 seconds.

Most steel mtb I’ve tried were much too stiff. Yo eddy, bunch of gt. Like pressing against stone.
I thought the Bridgestones were boring.

Breezers were too flexy, wasn’t my bag.
Bontrager has nice flex but never fit me, tt too short and tall.

I don’t think the kind of tubing mattered as much as the tubing diameter and thickness. The bikes I liked were made from expensive tubing but the ride was due to the builders choices.

Seems like I’ve ridden a lot more awesome steel bikes recently than in the past, a hampsten, a cielo, breadwinner, a Rodriguez. Its starting to be pretty common at least on the road. My gut says modern custom builders are nailing greatness more often, maybe tuning with computers?

 

[Oldskool26er]

Wow....if your able to ride and have ridden so many different makes of bike and still remember each ones personality traits without in the least bit being biased I tip my hat to you. Does this come from a roadie perspective or a mtbing one as they are two different worlds as far as the landscape. All of my interest in this sight pertains to mtb's so I forget there is a road/touring bike forum to this sight as well. As far as the comment about modern bikes and designers nailing it maybe there is your golden goose, go the modern bike route. My question is what, no disrespect intended, does anything modern have to do with a sight dedicated to vintage bikes of the 80's and 90's or older....

 

[enigma]

Hi there, Based on numbers that survived and in some cases like my Kona Kileaua still owned 25 years later.. amongst my local bike mates of the mid 90's I would say anything Kona, the steel Specialised stumpjumpers, and Mid range upwards Marins..
I also had a mate who broke many bikes thinking he was Martyn Ashton, but the one that survived his teens was I believe mass produced, it was a first of the Orange c 16r.
I have been looking at low budget bikepacking, and for me in regards to superb quality and comparable quality all the bikes with decent butted tube forks with eyelets for racks etc are the old school quality. I am using my dads old 94 ish Marin bear valley se. Barely ridden , original tyres, and worth circa £120 complete.. thats value.
The newest bike I own is a 2000 I think Kona Explosif, thats true temper ox I think, that still rides like an old kona, its a dream and very light. that is a syncros post, middleburn cranks, xt groupset, hope hubs.. posh of its day build but its a circa 24lb build without any silly weight weiny bits that wont last, in fact ive done a lot of miles on it and the only change ive made is a shorter stem and riser bars to lay back as I am getting old...!

 

[Oldskool26er]

Wow....if your able to ride and have ridden so many different makes of bike and still remember each ones personality traits without in the least bit being biased I tip my hat to you. As far as the comment about modern bikes and designers nailing it maybe there is your golden goose, go the modern bike route. My question is what does anything modern have to do with a sight dedicated to vintage bikes of the 80's and 90's

Hi there, Based on numbers that survived and in some cases like my Kona Kileaua still owned 25 years later.. amongst my local bike mates of the mid 90's I would say anything Kona, the steel Specialised stumpjumpers, and Mid range upwards Marins..
I also had a mate who broke many bikes thinking he was Martyn Ashton, but the one that survived his teens was I believe mass produced, it was a first of the Orange c 16r.
I have been looking at low budget bikepacking, and for me in regards to superb quality and comparable quality all the bikes with decent butted tube forks with eyelets for racks etc are the old school quality. I am using my dads old 94 ish Marin bear valley se. Barely ridden , original tyres, and worth circa £120 complete.. thats value.
The newest bike I own is a 2000 I think Kona Explosif, thats true temper ox I think, that still rides like an old kona, its a dream and very light. that is a syncros post, middleburn cranks, xt groupset, hope hubs.. posh of its day build but its a circa 24lb build without any silly weight weiny bits that wont last, in fact ive done a lot of miles on it and the only change ive made is a shorter stem and riser bars to lay back as I am getting old...!

Not trying to wave the trek flag as variety is what this sight is all about but, "true temper ox" has come up more than once as a preferred frame material in this discussion and and as already has been pointed out is the same material trek used on their also before mentioned "singletrack" models starting in the 80's.....

 

[Oldskool26er]

Not trying to wave the trek flag as variety is what this sight is all about but, "true temper ox" has come up more than once as a preferred frame material in this discussion and and as already has been pointed out is the same material trek used on their also before mentioned "singletrack" models starting in the 80's.....

As far as Konas go I have a 94 hei hie frame in the wings for a not to far in the future build

 

[eri]

Wow....if your able to ride and have ridden so many different makes of bike and still remember each ones personality traits without in the least bit being biased I tip my hat to you. Does this come from a roadie perspective or a mtbing one as they are two different worlds as far as the landscape. All of my interest in this sight pertains to mtb's so I forget there is a road/touring bike forum to this sight as well. As far as the comment about modern bikes and designers nailing it maybe there is your golden goose, go the modern bike route. My question is what, no disrespect intended, does anything modern have to do with a sight dedicated to vintage bikes of the 80's and 90's or older....

I am completely biased to the pedal feel that I like. Nothing in my post about modern geo, I was talking about the feels of frames and geo, and how in my experience the tubing brand didn’t dominate the feedback from frame.

I listed some road bikes because wrt tubing and feel they’re bikes the same as vintage mtb. It used to be quite rare to find a perfect give in a steel bike, becoming more common despite steel variety decreasing. Isn’t it interesting that theses some knowledge that is becoming more available?

I listed modern steel bikes because it seems to me the raw goodness of steel seems to being used more effectively these days. I think that’s interesting but I can’t back it up with numbers and I don’t know the recipe. Magic!

Core point is I think it’s pretty hard to generalize about particular tubings impact of a bikes ‘feel’. Science works for vintage mtb too… thick and oversized tubing can ruin ride, regardless of how premium the steel.

Yes? No? What do you think?

 

[Titiritero]

By the way, taking about steel quality in the good old times, Bike Radar did recently a very informative podcast about steel with Tom Ritchey. I learnt a lot from it

 

[dirttorpedo]

Interesting question. To me a mass produced bike would equate to one of the lower end models - so basic Tange MTB tubing or equivalent at the best. No prestige or other lightweight, heat treated, etc. fancy tubing, and not hi ten.

Being Canadian I'd be looking at the Japanese or better quality Taiwanese manufactured bikes. Miyata jumps out to me immediately.

 

[eri]

By the way, taking about steel quality in the good old times, Bike Radar did recently a very informative podcast about steel with Tom Ritchey. I learnt a lot from it

Thanks for sharing, I thought that was a terrific listen.