Question about steel frame quality

[brocklanders023]

Re:

To be honest by the time you've bought a frame, added disc mounts and had a respray you may as well have just bought a bike with disc mounts in the first place. There's plenty out there for very little money.

 

[mattr]

If you want a straightforward, basic, tourable, steel frame. Just get an on-one inbred. It'll cost you (relatively) pennies, £130 for the frame IIRC(?) Its compatible with all the current standards, disc mounts, good number of braze ons. Strong. Decent size for steady riding/touring (bloody awful for actually mountain biking!)
They are also amenable to having "extra" braze ons/rivnuts fitted, as they are pretty robust frames.

You could probably pick a second hand one up for 50 quid. With forks.

 

[Rampage]

I've hear a lot of good things about the inbred. Doesn't stop people calling it a Tinbred though.
What are they made from? Chromoly?

 

[stevet1]

I've hear a lot of good things about the inbred. Doesn't stop people calling it a Tinbred though.
What are they made from? Chromoly?

Tinbreds are Titanium inbreds ..

 

[Rampage]

Oh, not people suggesting they are made from poor cheap metal?

Lol

 

[mattr]

I've hear a lot of good things about the inbred. Doesn't stop people calling it a Tinbred though.
What are they made from? Chromoly?

fairly bog standard 4130. Unless you get a lynskey one, which is 3/2.5 ti. IIRC. Hence ti-nbred

 

[hamster]

I'd thought it was a joke about Yorkshire...t'Inbred...

 

[Oldskool26er]

All steel trek mtbs were made in trek's own factory in the U.S. except for the lowest end models starting in the late 80's. The low end models were made in the other few factories in Asia most likely to save money. The MB1 was made in Japan since Bridgestone is a Japenese company. I also have a '89 rockhopper comp which is a little more confusing. It's a German company, who put a sticker on the chainstay that says designed in the USA with an American flag, but then built the bike in Taiwan. OK

As far as build quality and ride goes for my three steels, the trek is by far the highest quality build and best riding. The investment cast lugs are beautiful with the trek name stamped in them, the forged drop outs are in perfect alignment to this day even after almost 25 years of abuse, the black paint with white speckle and pink highlights still looks sharp and is protecting the frame well, except for the spots it is scrapped off due to various crashes here and there. And that bike rides soooo nice. The frame is extremely responsive and so lively it's energetic. I literally feel a burst of energy every time I get on that bike.

The MB1 is good quality as well, but the lugs are not nearly as nice as the treks and I am not sure they are investment cast (I think they might be stamped) and the rear drop outs are not aligned with nearly the same precision. The paint is not very sharp and has dots of rust coming though on different spots on the bike. The bike does ride really nice, but is not on the same level of liveliness as the trek and is definitely not as responsive as the trek. The frame is very compliant, but almost too much as I can feel some back end noodliness when I push it hard. I don't get the same pop from this frame.

The rockhopper is decent enough riding frame but the build quality is no where in the same legue as the other two bikes. The welds are pretty clumsy looking and both the front and rear drop outs are not aligned very precisly with the fork being the worst. Paint is basic black with stickers over it that can just peel off with no protective coating over them. The ride is rather dull compared to the other two bikes and not very lively, but I don't feel unwanted flex from the frame.



Big name bike comanies like GT and Gry Fisher and others also used fillet brazing, but just on their high end models. Lugs are actually stronger then fillet or tig and reinforce the joints which is an advantage on touring frames and MTBs. Lugs also allow the bike to be repaired easier by being able to remove a damaged tube from the lugs and replace it. I also agree that the oversized tubes will make a big difference in feel vs standard tubs since the tube walls can be made thinner and still get the same strength. This makes the bike feel more lively and responsive while still being stiff.

 

[Oldskool26er]

Re:

As many have said, modern day steel bikes are expensive because it is a minority market with low production numbers, but quality-wise the mid-top range steel bikes from the 90's are equal if not superior to today's offerings.

In the good old days, because everybody was producing steel bikes, a way to differentiate themselves was using branded tubing (Trek and Diamond Back with True Temper, Specialized and Scott with Tange, etc.) Nowadays that steel bikes are a niche, just saying a bike is steel is already a differentiating factor, and Surly or Rivendell sell "loads" of mid to expensive bikes using generic 4130 unbranded steel.

I also read somewhere that one of the reasons of steel decline was economical. Apparently welding is a bit harder to automatize with the thin steel tubes, while with the thick aluminium tubes (and nowadays the carbon casts) it was relatively easy to get some robots to produce thousands of bikes in very little time, therefore making aluminium bikes cheaper at equal weight to steel bikes, and therefore for manufacturers it was a no-brainer.

To add to that, people still think that an aluminium bike is lighter no matter what, even if they compare a nice high range steel model to a basic aluminium model (my friends are still surprised when my Breezer Lightning from 2012 is way lighter than some of their fancy aluminium bikes).

As to what steel to recommend, I would rather say set a budget, start looking, and whatever matches in terms of price and condition will do. At similar range, I don't think there was a huge difference between brands or tubing (although some experts might claim otherwise). My bikes are True Temper OX (Trek), Tange Infinity (Scott) and generic steel (Breezer) and as usual the only limitation factor is the rider, not the tubing More important I would say is the quality of the protective paint. My Treks have rock hard paint, while I need to be extra careful with the paint of the Scott as it chips and fades just by looking at it... The Breezer falls somewhere in the middle...

Trek unfortunately is the boogie man to many vintage enthusiast. Damn the quality, craftsmanship, artistic beauty and durability of their lugged steel framed 990 to 930 "Singletrack" mtb's that were manufactured and made in the U.S.A. Nothing on those frames were outsourced at all. My first venture into steel framed mtb's has been about 30 yrs. in the making as I never even considered a steel frame mtb in my years of riding. It is because of my desire to revisit my mtbing roots that I have discovered the true definition of "Steel is Real". It is unfortunate that certain model Klein's and Bontragers that were still manufactured in they're perspective factories of origin and their employees get dragged into this boogie man trek scenario. I'm not denying the fact that greedy men in business suits sooner or later ruin the landscape of tradition and homegrown purity but, those late 80's early 90's trek 990's to 930's "Singletracks" were and still are a excellent example if not arguably the best example of the that era of lightweight durable steel framed mtb's.

 

[Oldskool26er]

My definition of a mass produced frame is a frame that had been produced in larger amounts, that is not too expensive and also easily available, e.g. made by Bianchi, Giant, Marin, Wheeler, Specialized, Raleigh etc.

If the old frames are often as good as the modern ones, the main differences are only the geometry (today all MTBs have slope frames and a higher streering tube) and the disc brake mount. However, a disc brake mount can be bought here for few money: http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-fra ... MOUNT.html

Here is a 90s Stumpjumper with welded disc brake mounts: http://eisenschweinkader.org/g1/album/album136/s10.jpg

In my opinion, this is a modification that preserves the vintage bike appeal.

That may be your opinion and your entitled to it but ask a bontrager fan or a GT fan if welding disc tabs on a race or race lite or on a non disc Zaskar, psyclone or xingzag would fly. Just saying if you want disc brakes then get a late 90's model mtb where disc brakes by most all manufactures were an option.