Phil Wood Hub - minor play in axle

[rjsdavis]

Hello to all

I've just built up a pair of wheels for my unicorn ride using a pair of Phil Wood hubs. The front is perfect, but whilst truing the rear, I could feel that there was very minor lateral play of the rim whilst it was in the jig.

Once it was finished, and the wheel was popped into the frame, it was even more prominent. It feels exactly like where the cones on a traditional cone/bearing based hub are just left loose.

Having looked carefully at the hub, I just can't see anyway to adjust them. I'm not sure whether having this issue means that one of the sealed cartridge bearings is duff/knackered (this seems unlikely to me as the hub itself is in superb cosmetic condition and doesn't look as though it's done much in it's life). Also, where the long silver axle spacers that determine the spacing between the dropouts, I can't see how these can be adjusted. They're not like the axle spacers on Bullseye hubs, where they can easily be removed/adjusted by first loosening a very small allen key bolt in each spacer, then adjusted/removed etc - these appear to be a pressure/press fit?

I've given them some "press" together in my beefy old school wheel jig, but this doesn't seem to have any effect. Anyone know how to cure this frustrating problem?

Many thanks

 

[rjsdavis]

Would appreciate any suggestions from anyone that's come across this or a similar problem before?

 

[Mrphoibos]

Sounds like your cartridge bearings are just a bit worn. There's not much else to go wrong with these hubs. If you can pull off the alloy spacers on the axle, exposing the bearings, you can tap the end of the axle with a hammer and a lump of wood and the axle will come out with one of the bearings. find something to support the bearing and tap the axle out. Then re-fit the axle into the bearing that's still in the hub and repeat the process to remove the other bearing.

To re-fit the bearings; get everything properly clean, re-assemble the hub (everything will only go half way in) and using a couple of wheel nuts in place of the drop outs, press everything back together with your skewer.

Cartridge bearings have a code number on the side. Any bearing stockist will be able to decipher this and supply you with something identical. If you find a good bearing stockist they might even be able to offer you choices of heavier duty seals etc. SKF, YST etc. bearings from a bearing stockist tend to be a bit better than chang death items often supplied through bike shops.

 

[rjsdavis]

Hi MrPhoibos

Many thanks for replying. I follow everything that you've said.

I've just been out to have another look at the hub, and can't see an obvious way of pulling off / removing one or either of the axle spacers. Any tips / tricks for getting one of them off without leaving any unsightly marks on the main hub body or the spacer itself?

 

[one-eyed_jim]

Phil axle spacers are usually threaded onto the ends of a short axle. Some hubs use an 8mm allen key in the end of each spacer. Others use 5mm allen keys, or a combination of allen key and cone spanner. Is there an allen socket in the end of either axle?

 

[one-eyed_jim]

Re:

Good old BikePro:

http://www.bikepro.com/products/hubs/hubs_philwood.html

"Like the front hub, a bearing is installed in one end, then a steel outer axle tube is placed in the shell. The second bearing is installed then a machined stainless axle slides through the entire hub, bearings, and outer axle tube. The outer diameter of the rear inner axle is 15mm. The rear hub also uses machined stainless steel axle caps that thread onto the inner axle.

These caps reduce the O.D. from the 15mm to the needed 10mm for the frame drop-out, and provide the proper spacing needed for each specific rear hub. The inner axle can be lengthened on either side using these caps, making the needed hub length. These caps also have 5mm hex fittings broached into the end to make them field serviceable."

 

[rjsdavis]

Re: Re:

Good old BikePro:

http://www.bikepro.com/products/hubs/hubs_philwood.html

"Like the front hub, a bearing is installed in one end, then a steel outer axle tube is placed in the shell. The second bearing is installed then a machined stainless axle slides through the entire hub, bearings, and outer axle tube. The outer diameter of the rear inner axle is 15mm. The rear hub also uses machined stainless steel axle caps that thread onto the inner axle.

These caps reduce the O.D. from the 15mm to the needed 10mm for the frame drop-out, and provide the proper spacing needed for each specific rear hub. The inner axle can be lengthened on either side using these caps, making the needed hub length. These caps also have 5mm hex fittings broached into the end to make them field serviceable."

One eyed jim - you were exactly right. My apologies for the length of time taken to respond to this, but I've only just got around to checking this out - I've been SOOOOO busy.

I can't believe I'd never noticed that there was indeed a 5mm hex in each axle end. The inner axle is indeed undone with a 5mm allen key in each end. :facepalm:

Now that I've undone them and can remove the axle, and re-tighten them again, the axle spacers weren't particularly tightly done up. Now that I can do them up super-tight, it has significantly reduced the amount of lateral play at the rim when properly done up, but hasn't quite completely removed it. I suspect that a couple of spacers inside the two axle caps will make a modicum of difference. However, does anyone know where anyone can source some nice, thin, disc M14 flat washers that are only a few mm wider than the 15mm inner diameter so that come up reasonably close to level with the two screw on axle spacers?