Paris. Not Good News.

[ibbz]

Expect it again, and again and more importantly, expect it here.


Not all Muslims are terrorists, as there are they, fighting and dying right now in the fight against fundamental ideologies.
However.
So far all terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims.

We cannot sort this out only they can.
For them to do so, they must wholly accept the British way of life. Which means informing on your fellow Muslim should he be interested in going against the grain.
Furthermore they must also speak out in public in condemnation about illegal practices they are aware of.
Start forcing their children to live within the law.

I am not being rude nor argumentative so please accept this as just a discussion on this.
There seems to be a lot of confusion and misinformation going around, thanks to hysteria, knee jerk reactions and demagoguery by the Media and especially by Obama, Hollande, Cameron and his Neo Conservative, New Labour friends and allies.

A mistake there, no, not all terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims "so far". This is false and not correct.
There are scores of Terrorist groups throughout the world, and many commit acts of terrorism daily.
There are and have been wide ranging groups throughout Central and South America, East, South East and South Asia, throughout Africa and of course here in the British Isles with the many IRA groups and some Loyalist ones prominent.

Secondly, what do you mean by "British way of life"? The British way of life is multi faceted f looked at under a modern perspective, but traditionally and in my own opinion the British Way is enshrined in the Bill of Rights, the Petition of Rights and the Magna Carta and such things are ancient and protect our liberty, combined with the rule of law is what I class as the British way of life.

Does your way of life involve mass surveillance? Spying, snooping and informing? Creating suspicion and fear? hatred? If so then the Terrorists have won and you're now living under terror and Their ways by abandoning all enshrined in the sacrosanct documents I mentioned.

It's easy to beat the drum of war and revenge without thinking and being wise and clever in dealing with this.
Read the following excellent article in yesterday's Mail on Sunday by Peter Hitchens:
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/ ... think.html

Why was France in particular attacked ? And why should we expect it again and again and expect it here?

France is embroiled in a bombing campaign in Syria. Eye witness accounts from the murders in Paris state that this is what the attackers said, they mentioned Syria and this revenge for France bombing Syria.

It seems the French, British and Americans haven't read Mary Shelly's Frankenstein, George Galloway when he was an MP (like him or loathe him the man is intelligent and well read) when he asked Cameron if he has read Frankenstein and read it to the end?

Cameron and Hollande made some massive, unforgiveable foreign policy blunders in the Middle East in the last few years.

Firstly we had the intervention in Libya - egged on by Liberal interventionists and Neo Cons they attacked and deposed Gaddaffi and replaced a horrible yet stable and secure country with a failed anarchic State and a terrorist Al Qaeda breeding ground without Law, order or Liberty.
And they did this in collaboration with Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the other Gulf Despotisms who nurture, breed and have created Al Qaeda and Salafism Wahabism and have been exporting these 5th Columns and sub sects throughout the world with their Petro Dollars.

They then in collaboration with Saudi and Qatar and Erdogan in Turkey created hostility and so called protests against the Government in Syria - a country which was stable, relatively tolerant and Secular - where the people were educated and relatively happy - sure they were living under fear of Secret Police and a under a Despotism - but their personal freedoms, economic wellbeing and the rule of law were very secure - there were noproblems internally with terrorism, religious fundamentalism or murder - even street crime and such were very low.
For various foolish reasons Hollande and Cameron with a little help from Obama allied with Qatar Saudi and Turkey decided to arm the protesters, to create - hence the Frankenstein analogy; various factions such as the Free Syrian Army, the Al Nusra Brigades, Ansar Al Sham and of course ISIL - these are ALL of shoots of Al Qaeda (remember them?) armed and hostile, violent and driven by a Salafist Al Qaeda ideology where Shia Mjslims, other Sunni branches and other sects were heretics and to be exterminated - and where Christians and other 'people of the Book' were to be ruled over.
Where is ISIL and Al Nusra and the others weapons, funding, organisation etc coming from? It's Saudi and Qatar with Turkey - allies and NATO members.
These groups have bene nurtured and created and now all of a sudden some are out of control and are turning on their creators. They wont turn on the Saudis or Qataris nor Turkey (sure there was a violent terrorist bomb in Turkey recently - targeting the Kurds!)

The only people effectively fighting the ISIL and associated Al Qaeda of shoots are the Syrian Army and the Shiite Militias in Iraq allied with the Hezbullah Militia and assisted by Iran and Russia. We also have the Kurdish forces which are effective and assisted by the USA but the Turks are fighting these SAME Kurds!

A few years back, thank God Milliband and the Labour Party and Tory rebels defeated the governments plan to bomb President Assad's army in Syria - this would've elft a vacuum which would be filled by Al Qaeda. Apparently Assad used Chemical weapons on 'his own people'. Not only was this false and a lie, on the contrary the Chemical weapons were used by our creations and they came from Libya through Turkey.
read this excellent informed article by the Great Seymour Hersch:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m- ... e-rat-line

And now while the French attack, we are not attacking and nor should we attack - instead we need to address the real issues here, the roles of Saudi, Turkey and Qatar.
We need to assist Russia and Syria in combating ISIL and AL Qaeda spin offs in Syria with intelligence and whichever way to destroy ISIL in Syria - the same monster we created.

But alas, this will not happen, as Cameron and his friends will not abandon or focus upon Saudi, Qatar and Turkey and they've an irrational desire to fight or confront Russia and wont accept Assad.

I suggest reading the follwoing excellent articles by Patrick Cockburn - a proper experienced journalist:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/par ... 35491.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/author/patrick-cockburn

And Robert Fisk's journalism:
http://www.independent.co.uk/author/robert-fisk

And patrick Cockburn's book: The Jihadis Return, isis and the new sunni uprising
http://www.orbooks.com/catalog/jihadis-return/

As for how all of this shit started.
For that we have to look at the Arab Israeli conflics, Palestine and then Iraq.

Iraq was our ally during the Iran Iraq war.
After the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait Iraq became our enemy - but at the same time, the attack by coalition forces on a Muslim (albeit secular and ba'athist) country alarmed and angered many Muslims - this was also an excuse for Saudi and Gulf educated clerics to start peddling their literature throughout the West - Muslims were made to believe that this was an internal matter between Muslim nations and not the place of the West to kill Muslims. in 1990 I had never NEVER seen a Hijab or Beard or jack up trousers or Jesus robes on any person in London.
During the Gulf War I saw them start to be adopted and literature and groups such as Khilafa and Hizb ut Tahrir making their way via Saudi into London and England.

Anyway, 13 years of devastating Sanctions against Iraq which killed a HALF MILLION Iraqi Children didn't go down too well.
Read The Great War against Civilisation and Age of The Warrior by Robert Fisk, and his new book on Syria

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0007 ... 1_6&sr=8-6
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1841 ... 1_1&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1502 ... 1_3&sr=8-3

Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda stated as such as their reasons for targeting the US Embassy in Kenya, the USS Cole and the World Trade Centre.
They didn't wake up one morning and decide to lay waste because 'they hate our way of life' - bullshit peddled by Blair.


So then we have the Iraq War - how many died there? The Afghan War - how about that?
These created ISIL and ISIS and AL Qaeda and all the others - they birthed the groups and ideas, which were then allowed to form into groups we have now becauise of French, british and American meddling and tained alliances with Vile regimes in Saudi, Qatar and Turkey.

So sorry for the long message, but this needed to be said.
There is so much shit being spread in Media and by the same fools who cerated this emss in the first place.
if we had minded our own business from the start and ceased to get involved in regime change and ******* about with peoples in other far away countries none of this shit would've affected us and innocent people wouldm't have been ruthlessly murdered by terrorists scum in paris, London and NYC - in Moscow, on Russian Aeroplanes, in beirut and such

 

[ibbz]

Re: Re:

Dyna. Let's not forget 7/7. Over fifty dead and hundreds injured.

Ten years ago.

Prior to that we had terrorism too, and still have other groups intent on killing in the name of.

The difference with this sect is their willingness to die in their actions.

They are fighting for a cause, yes, but they are also guaranteed a place in eternal heaven by their action.

With that ideology, this is a whole new ball game.

Truly a battle of ideas. We need to scratch our heads till they bleed over this.

Bats, Ibbz. I doubt your knowledge or experience of Islamic ideas or customs is any more than mine. Carry on with the patronising approach though; it betrays a particularly binary view of the world.

As a follower of the Muslim religion, and a man approaching his mid 40ies with decades of reading, studying and traveling throughout the Muslim world I think my knowledge is greater than most who haven't been fated to be in my shoes. I also include contact with people who have more experience and knowledge than I, my dad and Grandad both were in the British Indian Army, my Grandad fought in Italy in The Great War.

I don't mean to be patronising and I apologise if I have been so.

 

[shogun]

So far all terrorist attacks have been committed by Muslims.

How on earth can we be on a forum where someone could probably tell you what brand of chainring bolt was en vogue 25 years ago or what brand of cable crimps Tinker Juarez ran at a NORBA round in 1991, but have people coming up with this kind of short memory nonsense? Selective amnesia? Deliberate myopia?

 

[highlandsflyer]

"In 1990 I had never NEVER seen a Hijab or Beard or jack up trousers or Jesus robes on any person in London."

That strikes me as totally unbelievable. I attended Regent's Park mosque regularly back then, through work and also when my uncle's family were in town. All the above observed in abundance.

 

[ibbz]

"In 1990 I had never NEVER seen a Hijab or Beard or jack up trousers or Jesus robes on any person in London."

That strikes me as totally unbelievable. I attended Regent's Park mosque regularly back then, through work and also when my uncle's family were in town. All the above observed in abundance.

You'll always see headscarves in MOSQUES you can't enter one with out your head covered.

I meant in normal life in schools colleges high streets in suburbia not in Regent's Park mosque and not in parts such as belgravia and Knightsbridge where we have lots of Arab tourists

 

[highlandsflyer]

Women generally did not enter the mosque back then, as you would know, and certainly not the same area as the men. They often sat outside in the park. Perhaps I was unclear. My point was Hijabs were worn all over London back then, as well as beards, short breeks and robes of all sorts. Your statements just don't add up.

 

[Harryburgundy]

Re:

Very well said ibbz
I'm trying to watch Bitter Lake but the editing is appalling
Any other recommendations?

 

[ibbz]

Women generally did not enter the mosque back then, as you would know, and certainly not the same area as the men. They often sat outside in the park. Perhaps I was unclear. My point was Hijabs were worn all over London back then, as well as beards, short breeks and robes of all sorts. Your statements just don't add up.

You're quite wrong
Women were and are and always have been allowed to enter larger mosques and especially Regent's Park
And as I stated the Wahabi style beard and jackup was not to be seen in normal areas
And as for headscarves - don't confuse the South Asian traditional Dupatta with an islamicised Arabized hijab.

Islamic garb was always seen on Eid and Friday prayers and other prayer times in parts

I said I had never seen one, I was talking about myself and I've explained what I mean, normal teenagers and 20 somethings weren't dressing like that - devout people especially older men had beards and caps.

You may have been in circles and places I hadn't .

All I'm saying is that the gulf war had been partially responsible.

 

[ibbz]

Re: Re:

Very well said ibbz
I'm trying to watch Bitter Lake but the editing is appalling
Any other recommendations?

Mesrine

 

[ibbz]

Re:

The same goes for India and Pakistan where the influx of Afghan refugees, Saudi money pumped in during the soviet and mujahideen war and general Zia's 'reforms' radicalised much of the youth - this is where the Taliban are from - Talib means student.

Anyway ive been following events since then and have been arguing against Wahabization since I first noticed it here since 1990 and it's been futile.

As long as we keep giving the Saudis and qataris head things won't improve much.