On balance, I still am not a fan of e-bikes (previously known as ‘I just don’t get E bikes’)
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Splatter Paint
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As Mad Max said: My point is these ebikes are already illegal, so the threat is already there, and the yobs don't care, and ride them anyway. Yesterday I saw this.
Bold as brass, a bloke riding an e-push bike that was essentially a moped as he wasn’t pedalling and it was doing a steady 30mph (according to the speedo in my car). It had indicators fitted too. These bikes should be removed from the highways by Police action, but I can’t see it happening. If they were subject to the same safety requirements for road legality like petrol mopeds and have a number plate and insurance then maybe it’d be ok.
Bold as brass, a bloke riding an e-push bike that was essentially a moped as he wasn’t pedalling and it was doing a steady 30mph (according to the speedo in my car). It had indicators fitted too. These bikes should be removed from the highways by Police action, but I can’t see it happening. If they were subject to the same safety requirements for road legality like petrol mopeds and have a number plate and insurance then maybe it’d be ok.
This got lost in the tinfoil hat pink gammon noise, and has had me thinking.
By it's very essence, cycling is pedalling. Imagine running without moving your legs. Or driving without a vehicle. Or playing the piano without interacting with the keys. Eating without food. And so on.
I can't fathom enjoying cycling but disliking pedalling, even if downhill was the only discipline. Pedalling is a requirement of ebiking too.
Perhaps unlocking this conundrum answers the appeal of ebikes. That ebikeing isn't cycling. At all. It's motorised transportation.
Oh, and trusting what Rob Warner says, bless him, is asking for trouble
Madmax1993
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If I understand your points correctly, you're calling for regulation, when what you really mean is tougher enforcement, regardless of whether we integrate electric mopeds into the existing system or not. If it doesn't have pedals or a number plate, then you don't need any motor testing equipment or knowledge to tell that it's illegal. Throw in a balaclava, no helmet and the fact he's doing a massive wheelie down the street, that should be an instant stop, confiscate and charge (the individual, not the bike 
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Madmax1993
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There seems to be some confusion around the definition of an ebike.This got lost in the tinfoil hat pink gammon noise, and has had me thinking.
By it's very essence, cycling is pedalling. Imagine running without moving your legs. Or driving without a vehicle. Or playing the piano without interacting with the keys. Eating without food. And so on.
I can't fathom enjoying cycling but disliking pedalling, even if downhill was the only discipline. Pedalling is a requirement of ebiking too.
Perhaps unlocking this conundrum answers the appeal of ebikes. That ebikeing isn't cycling. At all. It's motorised transportation.
Oh, and trusting what Rob Warner says, bless him, is asking for trouble
An ebike (or pedelec) is a an electric motor assisted bicycle, with pedals, that supplements your input until you reach a speed of 15.5mph. Legally, these bikes should not have a throttle and will not go without pedalling.
These Surron type things are not ebikes, they are small electric motorbikes or mopeds. They should really be beyond the scope of this discussion, as they require no pedalling, so are not legal in the same way as pedelecs are. They can, in theory, be registered, and insured, but (like with e-scooters) the framework for that is a minefield and not practically possible, so they are effectively illegal on all roads and public paths. They are only legal on private land, with the landowner's permission of course.
Retrorockit
Old School Hero
There might be an opportunity to improve the situation of those with a 250W/ 15nph limit. There is a 350W 20mph classification that is observed in most places. Even in the US many crowded places impose that. Bosch, Shimano, Yamaha and other OEMs don't like to have to produce bikes to other "special" standards. They're starting to rebel by rating the bikes by torque instead of Watts. So maybe a push for the international 350W standard might have a chance if the OEMs are on board also.
Retrorockit
Old School Hero
You're correct about the Suron. It's an Electric dirtbike. But I see E bikes and Pedelecs as 2 separate categories. E bikes have various restrictions in various places. Pedelec I believe is a category that is equivalent to an electric Moped. It has pedals but 2HP/30mph- 50kph and a throttle. Usually requires registration. License and insurance may vary from place to place. When you go above that level MOT,DOT safety and emission compliance/certifications come into play making dirt bike registration difficult.
Ebikes will never evolve to replace gasoline vehicles if they are too restricted. The limits you seem to favor actually keeps them from replacing pedal bikes, since the limits and expense cancel out any useful benefit. I suppose that's the intent.
Yes, the very essence of a bike ride is pedalling. And when I get the rhythm just right it's like a symbiosis between me and the bike. I'm very heavy and as a result my fitness isn't great, but I find it quite brilliant that the rotating of a crank gets me places. I think the issue people have is that they want to go fast, and so if you don't have the fitness to go fast, it feels sort of futile. But as someone who loves riding slow and just taking in my surroundigns, there's never really a moment where I wish I had a motor. Because I know that if I had one, I'd take the easiest option, and it'd not be fully my doing anymore. I think if people could appreciate going places on a bike, at any pace, provided that is possible (commuting to work etc could make that problematic) then a lot of people wouldn't feel the need for an ebike.This got lost in the tinfoil hat pink gammon noise, and has had me thinking.
By it's very essence, cycling is pedalling. Imagine running without moving your legs. Or driving without a vehicle. Or playing the piano without interacting with the keys. Eating without food. And so on.
I can't fathom enjoying cycling but disliking pedalling, even if downhill was the only discipline. Pedalling is a requirement of ebiking too.
Perhaps unlocking this conundrum answers the appeal of ebikes. That ebikeing isn't cycling. At all. It's motorised transportation.
Oh, and trusting what Rob Warner says, bless him, is asking for trouble
I struggle with seeing ebikes as merely a different category of bicycles, I'm willing to do so, but I find it hard because the marketing to me doesn't come across that way. At least over here, it feels like there's an attempt at making the humble push bike a relic, thing of the past. As if the bicycle has now finally progressed into its final form, its better form. Which I don't agree with. I can see why someone might find an ebike a bit of fun, and obviously for some it makes riding possible. But if the glory of an ebike, to some, is that it makes you not have to pedal, or pedal as much, then I think eventually those people will reach the conclusion that what they want isn't actually a bicycle - they want an electric scooter to explore and commute on. Which is okay. But it isn't a bicycle.
I suppose there's a fine line. I don't know how to balance it though.
Madmax1993
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I don't necessarily favour the current limit, that's just what the law is currently in the UK. I do agree with the spirit that an ebike should still be, at its core, a bicycle first. This allows it to integrate on cycle paths, and with mainstream bikes. Personally, I would like to see the assistance limit go up to 20mph or so, as this is close to what a moderately fit cyclist could achieve and sustain on a road bike on a cycle path. Any more however, and it starts to get hairy if the user is not skilled (read trained) to handle the machine they're using.
I have nothing against the existence of low(ish) powered electric mopeds either, but I feel they should require registration and insurance, and should not be allowed on cycle or footpaths, as the greater speed they are capable of makes them dangerous to other path users. I think I'm saying the same as a lot of others are really, but I also stand by my point that the type of hooligans riding derestricted ebikes and/or electric mopeds in an irresponsible fashion are not going to be deterred by attempting to integrate surrons or ebikes with other powered transport. Greater policing/enforcement is required to stop this kind of behaviour.
There are a few target audiences for ebikes:
Firstly, making cycling accessible to those who otherwise couldn't/wouldn't participate. Either unfit, elderly or disabled people, for example. This is where pedal assist ebikes shine.
Secondly, as an alternative to combustion engine travel. This is where non-cyclists are tempted out of cars by ebikes or electric mopeds. The example is, 'you don't need to put on silly lycra or arrive all sweaty, as the bike helps you out.' Or an electric cargo bike having the space to transport luggage that a normal bike couldn't. Or an electric moped could beat the traffic without you having to exercise at all.
Thirdly, for the mountain bikers, ebikes can be an alternative to uplift days, or just generally be a way to get more runs in in a day by taking the edge off the climbs.
