Oldest mountain bike in UK?

[tangent]

I just a positive note to say how much I enjoyed reading and learning in detail from the early part of this thread.

It was especially interesting to learn of the the link between ("F.W.) Evans bikes and subsequent Saracen frame sets. (my first mtb) late 80s.

Keen to learn more on that.

Thanks for the info. Appreciated. (I engaged granny gear & double U-brakes for some tho')

 

[Splatter Paint]

Re:

I had an early Deerhead-equipped FW Evans Conquest. It was quite pleasant to ride in a ploddy kind of way. No idea how the Crane brothers rode one up Kilamanjaro though!

SP

 

[tangent]

Re: Re:

I had an early Deerhead-equipped FW Evans Conquest. It was quite pleasant to ride in a ploddy kind of way. No idea how the Crane brothers rode one up Kilamanjaro though!

SP

One of the Crane Bros. gave a lecture in our local Town Hall, around that time ... wished I'd asked that question now ...very inspirational endeavours & equipment.

 

[CassidyAce]

Re:

Back on track . . .

There's a nicely balanced piece here (http://www.completesite.com/mbhof/page. ... mberid=209) about Geoff Apps and Cleland - and, roughly speaking, the conclusion is that it's impossible to tell whether Apps had much of an influence on the development of US mountain bikes. Some of his ideas could have influenced US mountain bikes if there had not been supply problems in the acquisition of fat 650B and 700c tyres, and some of his ideas might, actually, have had an influence. It seems very clear that Apps was developing all terrain bikes in parallel to the development in the US but whether that parallel stream of development led to much cross-fertilisation of ideas is difficult, if not impossible, to determine. (Remember: the original post was about 'the first cluster of US-inspired mountain bikes in the uk?' Not about the origin of mountain bikes per se.)

. . .
Apps failed. His bikes were ugly. Yet they performed a function and a purpose. But whatever those were, they were NOT akin to or related to THE MOUNTAIN BIKE INDUSTRY OF TODAY.

Yes, he went out of business. Yes, in my opinion they were ugly. Yes, his bikes performed a function and fulfilled a purpose but, surely, that function and purpose were pretty much the same as today's mountain bikes: riding off road under a variety of conditions, so, in that sense, they seem very much akin to the mountain bikes of today. However, that is not to say that they have had any great influence on today's mountain bike industry. There are two different, but related, issues there: similarity and influence.

 

[dyna-ti]

1953 klunkers :? earliest form possibly

 

[mrkawasaki]

It would be good to fully understand how the UK framebuilders each became first aware and then went on to build that first bike suitable in their thoughts for 'offroad'. Was it perhaps well travelled customers bringing in photos or descriptions of early American bikes or some other unique demand? Framebuilders weren't classified as frame designers back then where they? Whatever, most of the early bikes that have come through here circa 1983/4 vintage look fairly similar in their thinking, much along the Ritchey/Specialized template - was that basic road bike design what made mountain biking really take off? Surely more of a holding station until designers (creativity + engineering) rather than framebuilders came to the fore and a more fertile and liberal approach was funded by the plethora of entrepeneurial endeavours that became attracted to the opportunity.

In this regard, the UK has little originality to show for itself over the early period of ATB to MTB history except for Apps' lone furrow. Genuine artists and creatives, either here or in the US, are guided or influenced by what we supposedly normal folk would call 'success' - they are challenged by our conventions and rigid thinking and are unlikely to conform in any or all aspects of life. Vive la difference - without difference we have nothing.

 

[Peachy!]

Watching from the bleachers.......

 

[Woz]

It would be good to fully understand how the UK framebuilders each became first aware and then went on to build that first bike suitable in their thoughts for 'offroad'. Was it perhaps well travelled customers bringing in photos or descriptions of early American bikes or some other unique demand? Framebuilders weren't classified as frame designers back then where they? Whatever, most of the early bikes that have come through here circa 1983/4 vintage look fairly similar in their thinking, much along the Ritchey/Specialized template - was that basic road bike design what made mountain biking really take off? Surely more of a holding station until designers (creativity + engineering) rather than framebuilders came to the fore and a more fertile and liberal approach was funded by the plethora of entrepeneurial endeavours that became attracted to the opportunity.

In this regard, the UK has little originality to show for itself over the early period of ATB to MTB history except for Apps' lone furrow. Genuine artists and creatives, neither here or in the US, are guided or influenced by what we supposedly normal folk would call 'success' - they are challenged by our conventions and rigid thinking and are unlikely to conform in any or all aspects of life. Vive la difference - without difference we have nothing.

For sure basic "road" design (72 degree parallel, square fit) was a key element. It's a basic bike with neutral handling. 26" was almost universally and globally destined for sit up and begs with sleepy geometry. Getting a fat tyre 26" stuffed in a "road" design sums up the eventual design of what we recognise as a MTB in my mind.

Apps seemed to have a different take on this (unlike Ritchey).

Components are a mere detail. There was enough non-lightweight touring components to be robust "enough".

 

[legrandefromage]

1953 klunkers :? earliest form possibly

They are bicycle Speedway

 

[legrandefromage]

Re: Re:

I had an early Deerhead-equipped FW Evans Conquest. It was quite pleasant to ride in a ploddy kind of way. No idea how the Crane brothers rode one up Kilamanjaro though!

SP

Deerhead in use was pretty grim, Suntour did it better. The Cranes' bikes had something like 36t rear but the rest is standard stuff, 'Mountain Bikes', er, up a mountain!