new project: 1936 professional racing bike

[jordic1968]

Thanks for the feedback . I've googled a little bit for Roger Lapébie (TDF '37 winner), Bartali (TDF '38 winner) and Coppi and the rim width does not worry me. It looks even better in my frame as it has a lot of clearance. Looking at some pics they could use these wide rims and fat tires too back in 1937 or 1938. I've just realized mines are for clinchers, not tubulars, maybe that's why they look deeper. I guess riders at that time would prefer tubulars they laced on their torso.

With a lot of time, effort and money, I see myself capable to restore them, but still thinking if these are the right ones. I will need to get new hubs and freewheel, lace them again with new spokes,... but on the other side it's not so easy to find 1930's rims or wheelsets ...

 

[keithglos]

Clinchers did not exist then. Cycle tyres were either wired on or tubular. You are unlikely to get decent looking wired-ons, but you could reshape the bed of the rims to take tubulars, which are not so precise as to rim diameter. Check the diameter allowing for inflated tyre to be around 27 inches or a little less. You do not want the rims to be for 26 inch tyres.
Perhaps you could show a pic of the well of the rim.

Young Bartali using Vittoria 2 or 3 speed back pedal change, with chain tension controlled by hand. this model was an advance on the previous one, where you had to backpedal and move the chain over with your bare hand.

Keith

 

[pigman]

Genuine question.
Are clinchers and wired ons not the same?
When I started the word clincher didn't exist, it was either tubs or wired on

 

[keithglos]

Clinchers seem to arrived way after my time period.
Original tyres for bikes and cars were called "Beaded Edge" and used on cars well into the 1920s, although cycle tyres had already changed to wire beads.
Wired on needs a slightly deeper well in the rim to be able to lift the inextensible wire edge which also must not be bent, over the edge of the rim. Replacing the wire with something flexible and also lighter seems to require a shaped edge which is retained by a ridge on the rim.
Tyre sizes were simple in the days of the wired -on.

Keith

 

[pigman]

The non-folding clinchers on sale today have wire beads so would assume these are wired ons and that clinchers are those with a folding kevlar bead.
Is that correct?

 

[Nabeaquam]

I was more a guy spending time with my loved Pinarellos from the 90's and doing some neo-retro stuff but some time ago I just began to feel attracted by older bikes and bits (let's say before the 70's) .

I started to buy (can't say collect) just to have some purpose investigating and learning from those "early" days . And also tired of the "everybody has or is looking for" Campagnolo bits or Colnago alike bikes. Did you know the Tour de France of 1936 was done with a single gear and freewheel ? Three speed innovation, first gear shifting systems, Simplex patents, the startings of Campagnolo!, a lot (to me) of unknown brands and riders .... Can you check older pics of these riders in action and you will suffer along !

Now here it is my recent aquisition. From what I know it was a Spanish professional rider's bike and I would date it from 1936. It has Bowden brakes (did you know Bowden invented the internal cable & external housing braking transmission system used nowadays?), Super Riviera stem and a 3 speed Super Champion ("Osgear") Professionnel shifting system. Three speed indexed shifting , back in 1936!!!

Some pieces are missing and wheels need to be replaced but it's a nice restoration project ahead. This bike deserves it. Any information to help me about or any info on this period bikes will be much appreciated. I'll keep posting restoration progress!!


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Here’s mine. I still ride it. It kinda shifts, better than a flip flop. I generally dismount at the bottom of a steep hill and spin, shift and remount. Shifting is not at all crisp, is ok on gentle rolling hills but doesn’t shift if you are pedaling hard. Its very light so it climbs well. I used it on a road and motorcycle racing circuit to do a 12 hour time trial and it was either built too lightly or the frame is worn out because on high speed right angle flat corners at the bottom of a hill the frame flexed so much that the chainring would rub on the front chain guide. It’s fine for road riding. My other vintage, but newer, (1960 and 1990) steel road bicycles were fine on these corners. My 1931 track bicycle with the gooseneck externally clamped to the fork tube would slightly slip and the bars would be a little crooked on these frightful corners. My goosenecks with jam wedges were fine. This TT is at night and only the corners are well lit, the lights turn on automatically when you approach the corners. I start out terrified and by 4 hours the field spreads out and I’m only uncomfortable taking these corners. Too many people don’t know how to ride track and cut you off, you need to use all three lanes of the track to make these corners. You will like your bike.

 

[keithglos]

You need the changing fork as close to the cogs as possible, it could need a shim in the chainstay clip. You would then have to bend the changing fork up a bit.
Also I can't see if you have the tension release connected. If you wind the tension arm up a bit it will change gear better. You will never know exactly which gear you'll get, but with practice a quick flick and put the gear lever in the same hole it came from usually did it.
The pros didn't like a tight chain or the bouncing bottom roller of the Simplex T de F.
I used one of these for a time in 1950 running 5 speed and 2 chainrings.

The real fun was the Paris Roubaix gear, I ran with 14 to 24 and 48/51 with handlebar end control for the front changer. Undo the wheel and pedal forward to change the front, so one hand on the left handlebar end and the other half way down the right hand seat stay.
Safe enough because if the wheel came too far forward it would touch the chainstay bridge and gravity would take over and it would run back up the ends.

Keith

 

[Peachy!]

Proper build thread.

 

[jordic1968]

Here’s mine. I still ride it. It kinda shifts, better than a flip flop. I generally dismount at the bottom of a steep hill and spin, shift and remount. Shifting is not at all crisp, is ok on gentle rolling hills but doesn’t shift if you are pedaling hard. Its very light so it climbs well. I used it on a road and motorcycle racing circuit to do a 12 hour time trial and it was either built too lightly or the frame is worn out because on high speed right angle flat corners at the bottom of a hill the frame flexed so much that the chainring would rub on the front chain guide. It’s fine for road riding. My other vintage, but newer, (1960 and 1990) steel road bicycles were fine on these corners. My 1931 track bicycle with the gooseneck externally clamped to the fork tube would slightly slip and the bars would be a little crooked on these frightful corners. My goosenecks with jam wedges were fine. This TT is at night and only the corners are well lit, the lights turn on automatically when you approach the corners. I start out terrified and by 4 hours the field spreads out and I’m only uncomfortable taking these corners. Too many people don’t know how to ride track and cut you off, you need to use all three lanes of the track to make these corners. You will like your bike.View attachment 602017

That is very nice! I'm happy to have a "sister bike" here. These are modern hubs aren't they ?

 

[jordic1968]

Clinchers did not exist then. Cycle tyres were either wired on or tubular. You are unlikely to get decent looking wired-ons, but you could reshape the bed of the rims to take tubulars, which are not so precise as to rim diameter. Check the diameter allowing for inflated tyre to be around 27 inches or a little less. You do not want the rims to be for 26 inch tyres.
Perhaps you could show a pic of the well of the rim.

Young Bartali using Vittoria 2 or 3 speed back pedal change, with chain tension controlled by hand. this model was an advance on the previous one, where you had to backpedal and move the chain over with your bare hand.

Keith

I spent almost half an hour removing the clinchers! Solution was to saw the wires . Anyway, re-shaping the bed looks feasible and it will help to hide some dents on the flanges likely caused by someone else trying to remove the same clinchers !

Not to much to remove, maybe just some sanding will do. A big tube (30, 32, need to measure yet) will fit well already as there is already a big/wide surface contact. I'll probably end up making a pice of wood with kind of desired shape / template and use it with sand paper.

But first I need to fill any crack with glue and clamp it all with wood ribbons , side by side, and little by little getting the round shape. Once the rims are done, look for new hubs and lace them. I will wait to start with this to have the new hubs with me; don't want to start removing spokes and leave the wooden rims too long alone if they could loose shape.

Here the pics of the rim. Next stop: crankset and bottom bracket before starting with the Osgear !