New Holdsworth 2015 Heritage range
- Thread starter jules_b
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Skynet
Senior Retro Guru
Apparently they're looking at creating proper head badges and someone just said a 753 is almost ready! This is the prototype pic:
https://www.facebook.com/HoldsworthBike ... mp;theater
Still not sure I'm 100% with the brass lettering they're doing but not seen one in real life.
https://www.facebook.com/HoldsworthBike ... mp;theater
Still not sure I'm 100% with the brass lettering they're doing but not seen one in real life.
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My bars have holdsworth on them, should I be getting the grinder out in case Planetx see them?
Damn! I typed holdsworth on my Sony bugger! Planetx will be on me again!
Damn! I typed holdsworth on my Sony bugger! Planetx will be on me again!
Re:
Just seen this and think it is pretty annoying. H Lloyd has done a brilliant job in the past of supplying decals, not just for Holdsworth, but for other brands and Planet X are being very heavy handed. It would be one thing if they actually provided the old decals themselves but they obviously are not. The new range will never be a substitute for the old range and they should understand that a big part of their market is fuelled by the interest of the people that own the old bikes. What they should do is licence H Lloyd to provide their decals (like Reynolds do I believe) or at very least provide the old range themselves. They will probably find that they do not have the templates or the inclination to go through the time and effort that H Lloyd has gone through over the years to replicate them.
Just seen this and think it is pretty annoying. H Lloyd has done a brilliant job in the past of supplying decals, not just for Holdsworth, but for other brands and Planet X are being very heavy handed. It would be one thing if they actually provided the old decals themselves but they obviously are not. The new range will never be a substitute for the old range and they should understand that a big part of their market is fuelled by the interest of the people that own the old bikes. What they should do is licence H Lloyd to provide their decals (like Reynolds do I believe) or at very least provide the old range themselves. They will probably find that they do not have the templates or the inclination to go through the time and effort that H Lloyd has gone through over the years to replicate them.
I imagine that Planet X now own the rights to Holdsworth so have a copyright/trademark regarding anything Holdsworth. This would give them the rights but as for templates for old decals are concerned, they have the rights to the production but unless the previous owners handed over templates as part of the sale, then they would have to get them made.
I would imagine under normal trademark laws that H Lloyd may no longer be allowed to produce anything related to Holdsworth, but artwork H Lloyd used to produce the decals is H Lloyds and in no way accessable to Planet X.
While it is good that they are remaking what seem to be quality steel machines, though in my opinion, they are grossly overpriced compared to other British built frames, Planet X is a business and they didn't buy it for sentimental reasons. It was clearly profitable and is a chance to make some money, good money. The standard type frame they sell for twice the price of the Bob Jackson equivelant, and theirs have no history other than a name they purchased. There is good money to be made from tugging at the strings of sentimental, cycling mad steel frame lovers, just go and have a quick tally up of one page of the for sale section on here for example, or check the steel sale pages on facebook.
I do think its great that there is steel frames coming back into the market but I dont get confused about who or why or what they are.
Jamie
I would imagine under normal trademark laws that H Lloyd may no longer be allowed to produce anything related to Holdsworth, but artwork H Lloyd used to produce the decals is H Lloyds and in no way accessable to Planet X.
While it is good that they are remaking what seem to be quality steel machines, though in my opinion, they are grossly overpriced compared to other British built frames, Planet X is a business and they didn't buy it for sentimental reasons. It was clearly profitable and is a chance to make some money, good money. The standard type frame they sell for twice the price of the Bob Jackson equivelant, and theirs have no history other than a name they purchased. There is good money to be made from tugging at the strings of sentimental, cycling mad steel frame lovers, just go and have a quick tally up of one page of the for sale section on here for example, or check the steel sale pages on facebook.
I do think its great that there is steel frames coming back into the market but I dont get confused about who or why or what they are.
Jamie
daveplanetx
Dirt Disciple
Re:
There seems to be a bit of mis information going round here .
We tried to come to an arrangement to have an official range of decals made by H Lyoyd .
We asked for a simple % royalty agreement subject to a yearly fee , but unfortunately an agreement wasn't possible .
If I remember correctly the fee was less than 1000 pounds per year , we did not try to be heavy handed and we did try to find an agreement which was turned down , so it did not happen .
We are now selling high end decals that we had produced for us in Italy .
We have just brought Holdsworth production back to the UK thanks to Mark Reilly and he is now producing the first batch of UK Holdsworth frames , together with support from Keith at Reynolds we hope to do some good stuff .
Mark will also be offering fully custom Holdsworths and also a complete repainting and refinishing service , and as he gets fully established a full line of high quality decals .
The last thing we want to do is have customers lose out and we are sorry we couldn't agree a deal with H Lyoyd , we are going to try to get things done right and we hope having Mark involved will give us the ability to do this .
There seems to be a bit of mis information going round here .
We tried to come to an arrangement to have an official range of decals made by H Lyoyd .
We asked for a simple % royalty agreement subject to a yearly fee , but unfortunately an agreement wasn't possible .
If I remember correctly the fee was less than 1000 pounds per year , we did not try to be heavy handed and we did try to find an agreement which was turned down , so it did not happen .
We are now selling high end decals that we had produced for us in Italy .
We have just brought Holdsworth production back to the UK thanks to Mark Reilly and he is now producing the first batch of UK Holdsworth frames , together with support from Keith at Reynolds we hope to do some good stuff .
Mark will also be offering fully custom Holdsworths and also a complete repainting and refinishing service , and as he gets fully established a full line of high quality decals .
The last thing we want to do is have customers lose out and we are sorry we couldn't agree a deal with H Lyoyd , we are going to try to get things done right and we hope having Mark involved will give us the ability to do this .
Thanks for that Dave, that clears some things up for me and I stand corrected on a few of my comments. Apologies if I had it out of line.
What I cant understand is if Planet X is going to so much effort and expertise to build these fine frames, especially that lovely looking 753, why use the Holdsworth name at all?
My personal view piont, and it is just my feeling with no offence or expertise intended, is that its not a 'real' Holdsworth. Its a bit like how the Flying Scot named changed hands and some where built inEngland in the 80's etc. I do appreciate that its keeping the name alive etc, and that its also marketing to a base that already exists, a known name, tradition, real or percieved etc.
I dont see why Planet X dont just build them and brand them as Planet X or 'whatever cool name' by Planet X. I think the Planet X bikes are brilliant and make great machines from the Cromo range right through to the carbon. The Flanders carbon cyclocross has to the coolest modern machine I've seen.
Just a few thoughts and opinions but wish you guys all the best with them.
Jamie
What I cant understand is if Planet X is going to so much effort and expertise to build these fine frames, especially that lovely looking 753, why use the Holdsworth name at all?
My personal view piont, and it is just my feeling with no offence or expertise intended, is that its not a 'real' Holdsworth. Its a bit like how the Flying Scot named changed hands and some where built inEngland in the 80's etc. I do appreciate that its keeping the name alive etc, and that its also marketing to a base that already exists, a known name, tradition, real or percieved etc.
I dont see why Planet X dont just build them and brand them as Planet X or 'whatever cool name' by Planet X. I think the Planet X bikes are brilliant and make great machines from the Cromo range right through to the carbon. The Flanders carbon cyclocross has to the coolest modern machine I've seen.
Just a few thoughts and opinions but wish you guys all the best with them.
Jamie
daveplanetx
Dirt Disciple
The reason is because we remember Holdsworth from the glory days and we want to do our best to get to that level .
Not sure why you would not consider a "new holdsworth" as authentic as an older one , or use the words "perceived" , these are made in the UK , made on many models using the same tubing , made by reynolds in the same mandrels , painted in the uk , using the same techniques and processes , by the company that owns Holdsworth .
We could make Holdsworths easy enough in China and pay 50 usd a frame , Taiwan and pay 100 usd , or Vietnam and pay 30 usd , and probably sell a lot of real repro retro garbage but we truly want to try to do something good .
Back in 1988 I started my business importing Lemond frames made by Roberto Billato (who incidentally wants to set up a full Holdsworth uk production facility using his machinery that is in storage) then Fondest , and Casati - so high end steel production does run in my veins , I have missed the smell of steel .
I am not sure I agree that its about marketing , its just something I personally want to do , we will never sell too many made in UK Holdsworth frames , we sell 15,000 bikes a year now and we might sell 100 Holdsworths IF we have a good year . So its fair to say its a labour of love at this stage , but save dragging some of the old welders out of retirement theres not much more we could do .
If there is any money to be made out of Holdsworth it will probably be in the iconic jerseys , caps , bottles etc , there is probably a decent line there .
Not sure why you would not consider a "new holdsworth" as authentic as an older one , or use the words "perceived" , these are made in the UK , made on many models using the same tubing , made by reynolds in the same mandrels , painted in the uk , using the same techniques and processes , by the company that owns Holdsworth .
We could make Holdsworths easy enough in China and pay 50 usd a frame , Taiwan and pay 100 usd , or Vietnam and pay 30 usd , and probably sell a lot of real repro retro garbage but we truly want to try to do something good .
Back in 1988 I started my business importing Lemond frames made by Roberto Billato (who incidentally wants to set up a full Holdsworth uk production facility using his machinery that is in storage) then Fondest , and Casati - so high end steel production does run in my veins , I have missed the smell of steel .
I am not sure I agree that its about marketing , its just something I personally want to do , we will never sell too many made in UK Holdsworth frames , we sell 15,000 bikes a year now and we might sell 100 Holdsworths IF we have a good year . So its fair to say its a labour of love at this stage , but save dragging some of the old welders out of retirement theres not much more we could do .
If there is any money to be made out of Holdsworth it will probably be in the iconic jerseys , caps , bottles etc , there is probably a decent line there .
Thanks for the reply Dave.
I do genuinly appreciate it and I do ask questions or give my opinion, right or wrong, on how I percieve it, so I can have it explained to me especially if I am the one coming at it from the wrong angle so to speak. I am asking as I do think its good, I am just trying to figure the real motivation, despite how I'm probably coming across, I am not just sh*t stirring. Thats not my intention.
I do think your last three paragraphs turn it right round for me and its the personal angle that I can appreciate.
Thanks again and all the best
Jamie
I do genuinly appreciate it and I do ask questions or give my opinion, right or wrong, on how I percieve it, so I can have it explained to me especially if I am the one coming at it from the wrong angle so to speak. I am asking as I do think its good, I am just trying to figure the real motivation, despite how I'm probably coming across, I am not just sh*t stirring. Thats not my intention.
I do think your last three paragraphs turn it right round for me and its the personal angle that I can appreciate.
Thanks again and all the best
Jamie
