New Holdsworth 2015 Heritage range

[Johnsqual]

Re:

Points off for the irritating overuse of the word 'iconic' in the promo guff.

Would it not be better to either go to a frame builder who's still based in the UK (Jacksons,
Mercian,...) or buy an original Holdsworth and do it up?

Hilary Stone has a Mistral (I think) for under 200 quid, so you could realistically buy that and do it up for less than the 799 quid quoted for these frames.

I personally find restorations more satisfying than buying new, but I understand not everyone has the time.

 

[Apple Tree]

Re:

A good initiative and I hope they do well.

Another take on the announcement and some nice pictures.

http://road.cc/content/news/120789-snea ... tage-range

 

[Jamiedyer]

These do look nice but as usual its paying for the heritage of a company that has no real connections other than owning a name.
Its also very hard to find where the frames are built, I would imagine its in Planet X/On Ones current factory in Taiwan. Hopefully they are built in Britain but I couldn't find it on the links, hopefully I just missed it and am getting it all wrong. They build great frames normally and build them at a really good value so why are these steel frames far more expensive than buying the equivelant from Bob Jackson, Woodrup etc. I thought thats why most bike production went that way because it was cheaper
I just dont seem to be to enarmoured with the heritage marketing and the keeping it British nonsense with the Reynolds tubing and picture of a couple of old Brits welding away if they aren't actually built here.
Clever marketing to a select audience with a premium price, much like the recent Raleigh 'heritage' models, regardless of where they are built.
Bob Jackson for me, far cheaper

Jamie
(grumpiness over)

 

[Johnsqual]

These do look nice but as usual its paying for the heritage of a company that has no real connections other than owning a name.
Its also very hard to find where the frames are built, I would imagine its in Planet X/On Ones current factory in Taiwan. Hopefully they are built in Britain but I couldn't find it on the links, hopefully I just missed it and am getting it all wrong. They build great frames normally and build them at a really good value so why are these steel frames far more expensive than buying the equivelant from Bob Jackson, Woodrup etc. I thought thats why most bike production went that way because it was cheaper
I just dont seem to be to enarmoured with the heritage marketing and the keeping it British nonsense with the Reynolds tubing and picture of a couple of old Brits welding away if they aren't actually built here.
Clever marketing to a select audience with a premium price, much like the recent Raleigh 'heritage' models, regardless of where they are built.
Bob Jackson for me, far cheaper

Jamie
(grumpiness over)

+1 on all that, I would say.

I do wonder what the market for these 'heritage' type frames is (also the Raleigh ones). I'd imagine collectors are more interested in genuine old stuff, while people who are actually going to ride the frames would not be so keen to pay the extra for having a collectible frame if it's only going to get scratched.

I suppose they must know what they are doing, there must be some kind of market for this stuff, I just find it hard to see who buys these things. Never seen anyone on here who's bought a new heritage frame and I don't see many of them out and about, even on retro bike rides.

That's not meant as a criticism, just interested to know who actually buys this kind of thing.

Jackson's off the peg prices look very reasonable, btw.

Johnny

 

[NeilM]

Re:

Given that there will be something like 2000 retro enthusiasts at L'Eroica Britannia (around five of whom are active / vocal RB members) where the official launch is, I think the Directors of Planet X know exactly what they are doing.

There is currently a booming market for hand made steel frames in the UK, US, Japan, Australia and possibly Europe too, with builders giving lead times in many months. Not everyone who has a hankering for a good steel frame has the £1200 plus that hand made frames cost, nor the patience to wait.

There are of course people like Jacksons, Steve Goff and others doing a steady trade in more reasonably priced frames, but their marketing is pretty much non existent, where as Planet X are very IN YOUR FACE, so I think there is a good chance these frames will sell, and in sensible numbers.

 

[Jamiedyer]

I dont disagree that Planet X know what they are doing. Its a great peice of marketing and launching at L'Eroica Britannia is the perfect choice.
I certainly wouldn't be putting these frames up in the same quality league as a bespoke builder.
There are certainly handmade frames in 531 and other Reynolds tubing being made and sold in Britain for a lot less. There is a booming market and many small boutique/bespoke builders have a long wait and very expensive prices but I wouldn't be putting these frames in that category just yet, especially as its hard to find where they are even built.
Dont get me wrong they look great and I would love something like that modern Mistral but not at the price I could get a fitted frame here in the UK.
Its a good thing as it can only get bikes sold and maybe someone back into riding, and I must admit they look a far better job than the Raleigh.
I'm just cynical about a company playing the heritage marketing card when they dont have a heritage just a name, especially if there is no connection at all, even country of build, to the original product.
Holdsworth /Planet X sell carbon bikes and frames as well but I dont see them being snapped up/marketed as modern products of the iconic British company.
Just my 2 cents worth and despite how this sounds I do wish them well, I like on One/Planet X, buy from them a bit as usually great value.
Plus steel is the best and you can never have too much steel........can you?

Jamie

 

[Robbied196]

I'd call it purely a branding, marketing exercise of a classic name. I would assume Planet X have done their research and proved there is a market. Although I would say the main selling point into Europe, Asia and the USA would be if the frames were built in the UK, the fact that I've read nothing to suggest they are, probably proves they are not built here. You need 'Made in Britain'.

I guess sales depend on how keen people are to just buy into a name, it works in the motor industry. Bugatti has nothing to do with the original company but Volkswagen can sell Veyron's.

 

[stellaboy]

Re: Re:

There's a lot to love here I think. In no particular order:
- lashings of 531. A well established framebuilder told me a few years ago he was having trouble getting hold of it from Reynolds. It can only be a good thing if more frames are being built out of this incredible stuff;
- Ed Smith, the brand manager at Falcon / Tandem who masterminded 2011's Holdsworth Professional, seems to be on board. I would have preferred it if the Professional's framw had been built in Britain, but I can't argue with the eye for detail with which it was constructed - which is presumably down to Mr Smith.
- the fact that its Holdsworth. I'm too young to have seen Holdswrth doing its thing first hand, but I associate the brand with a pleasing mix of slightly po faced technical competence and quiet extravagance in colour schemes and detailing.Both of which are present and correct here.

It'd be easy to be cynical. But this is on a totally different level to the usual token Reynolds 520 and brown pleather saddle "retro" offering that plenty of bike firms chuck out.

Hi I'm the said Ed Smith,

I can confirm that Planet X do indeed now own the Holdsworth brand and are wholly responsible for the new frames. We (Tandem Group Cycles) sold the name and remaining stock of the re-launched Professionals and carbon framesets to them last year. I haven't had any input on the new frames (but I'm very flattered that you thought I had), as I'm still here as the Product Manager for Claud Butler, but having seen the new frames they have done, I think its a pretty admirable tribute to the brand.

Obviously I'd have loved to have done more with the brand when we had it, but I got the feeling that the business model that Holdsworth probably requires didn't really fit with our other ranges and we didn't really have the time or resources to devote to it. The powers that be here would rather focus on the more volume orientated part of our business which is where we make our money which I guess is sad for me, but understandable when we answer to shareholders (kind of )

We have also handed over the Facebook account and Twitter for Holdsworth too so it is 100% Planet X.

I'm eager to see the new frames in the flesh at L'Eroica Britannia, because the photos look stunning. I do think they may possibly be limited by the fact they are all (from what I can make out) 1" threaded forks which kind of limits the build options a little and I would have liked to have seen a proper metal head badge instead of a decal. I have recently passed on the artwork and supplier info for the head badges I had made for the limited edition bikes I did to somebody in the industry, so maybe this is something which is being considered? (I hope so).

I wish them every success with the project because it is a fabulous brand with lots of potential and I cant wait to see some of the framesets built up in to bikes.

 

[Old Ned]

To be accurate, the Professional frame should have 75 degree angles and a ridiculously short fork rake.

At least for one season anyway.

Just like the real thing did.......................

 

[jules_b]

Re:

It actually had 75 degrees for only less than a year (I think late 70s or very early 80s). It was deemed to be too twitchy so they reverted back to 74degrees.

Apologies just read your post properly. You knew that already.