Disco Drive
Senior Retro Guru
That, is friggin' delicious! Great build...enjoy.
MAMMOTH RC201 E-STAY.
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Rod_Saetan
Old School Grand Master
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Dayum.
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I’m pretty confident, there won’t be anyone who gives a monkeys toss on my view of a nearly 30 year old mountain bike, but here are my
Overview and thoughts....
For me you gotta like the aesthetics of a bike, Joe Breeze calls the paint work a veneer, and he's right, but even he made a bike that was more than pleasing to look at....it actually begged you to ride it when you did look at it.
The build process for me really is like a journey, and you cant do that imho without riding it.
The Mammoth was read about bitd, sure its no C26, but it was a bike built from an idea at a time when fat tubes and e-stays were new, a time when the Klein Attitude was first seen here at the Race circuits....this was of that time.
I often Wonder would I have had the same AWE factor for this, had i seen it at the same time I picked up Dave Hemmings Newly collected Klein Attitude?
I like to think "Probably".
With my original memory of the mag review long since faded, this one came up for sale...
My first thought when taking it out of the BOX was the paint....To try and sum it up, it really is quality. The finish is VERY original Klein, Possibly the best I have seen - helped by the colour choice imho, which by modern standards is almost contemporary. But, it shouts at you, and the small Cycleart airbrushed logo a subtle reminder of those responsible, sealed forever in its history.
The Tubing; Nothing obvious, no weird and wonderful gizmos, just something simple, like a well designed book cover that holds a plethora of secrets under its covers...
Came out of the box with a Cartridge bottom bracket, some really neat internal cable guides for the internal cable runs, the rear brake run a vivid memory of the MBA article, the aluminium welding up to standard, well executed, and finished, the swaged seat-tube, but underneath, or inside the tubes, sleeves which acts like aluminium butting to increase strength and reduce weight. And that memory of it being hard to weld, and needed no heat treatment.
Nice i thought, the rear end has a cool roller for the rear brake, enough space easily for a good mud pluggin tyre, and being fair....what looks like an indestructible rear end.
It’s far lighter than i thought. The main frame, on par with its contemporaries, Klein too, but the weight is hampered when adding the fork, whilst its butted and straight, it doesn't afford the weight advantage of a Klein Attitude of its time, with the BOX fork that came with.
A cursory gander at the frame, and it was a bit like a race to get some components on it, at first it was simply about having a ride, it had been nearly 30 years. No real thought was given to spec correct, it was a frame/fork only option, so was a case of a Spare parts build.
A set of DX low profile cantilevers, XT cranks with bio pace rings, 3 finger dx rapid fires, no brand black generic seat post that was lying around, an old Turbo fit for purpose, XT rear mech DX front, a shabby set of Smokes and a set of wheels i know to be good to go....!
All told she's been out only about eight times. First thoughts were to the weight; It is light. For it’s time it probably feels 2lbs lighter than my TBG Explosive - it’s probably nowhere near, but its certainly a lighter bike despite its appearance. But then, the frame and fork on this was hundreds of pounds more than a complete off the peg Explosive, which is easily forgotten 30 years on.
The next thought was Harsh and cramped, the first stem used, a prestige with a roller was too high and short, and despite now having read the review again, it says it has a 22.5 tope tube - it sure didn't feel like it. Over time stems have been swapped out, and im nearly there, the one shown is right for me - or - nearly, but aesthetically its 5 mm too long and if i can find a suitable Salsa length, i might just find the sweet-spot.
Tyres; its had Smokes, Porcupines and some hard packs - all of them made the bike feel like skating on ice in the mud and wet, and none of them doing it any favours in terms of adding to a Harsh ride. I needed some balance, something which could hold air, add some cushion, but at the same time have a good rolling resistance and cope with the mud and wet.
Not an easy task when you’re on a budget, need something that adds to the ride and not detract from it, be period correct and in really good usable condition, if to be used for the finished bike.
The answer was eventually found in the 2.0 mud masters, amber wall, period correct, like new and with the needed tread pattern, frame clearance is good too.
I can’t tell you how it has transformed the ride. As a lover of steel, aluminium was always going to be a hard pill to swallow, and i certainly didn't expect levels like the second coming of Christ, but what a pair of tyres can do to change a ride is unfathomable.
Its a hard ride, now less harsh, but its pinpoint accurate and a little like a Newly broke stallion, the longer you ride the better it feels.
Its typically short, almost stout if your not careful with the stem, but is definitely an e-Stay, ..........The geometry of the rear end, its like... its just right, some stay lengths on e-stays are too short, some too long but this is different to ride than say the Dave Yates Vulcan, If you could close your eyes and didn't know, you would be forgiven for thinking its a double diamond frame to ride.
Climbing; there isn’t much to comment on, like any good quality E-Stay frame....uphill is a pleasure...downhill, this was far more stable, not in the leagues of an 80 Dawes with nearly 18" chain stays, but certainly on Par with others and perhaps because of the E-stay design or even the Tubing choice and fabrication, far far less twitchy than a Klein Attitude, and i think this is helped further by the Butted chromoly fork, which is so far removed from the Alu fork on the Klein.
The rear brake, Well, the low profile DX cantilevers and donor 3 finger levers left the rear brake a bit .....wishy, like you would make a wish you couldn't pull the lever to the handle bar..... sort of wish.
I eventually over came this by swapping them out for the older style XT cantilevers, it might just have come down to better cables, it might have more to do with the leverage of the cantilever, but swapping out the brake levers surprised me, it made it better, nearly indistinguishable from other rear brakes, save for say a U-Brake of course.
I think the final solution to add to the brake fade question is to use the current set up with some XT 2.0 mm brake cables. After that I wouldn’t feel the longer cable run to be even a consideration.
I think its hard to give a judgement on a bike without making some comparisons, the nearest for me being the Cannondale SM1000, again its sure not up to Klein levels, but then, being fair, the Dale, is Hand built Aluminium with a steel fork, but again the Cannondale is a whole bike for the price of the frame from the Mammoth stable BITD.
The most noticeable difference was the pin point accuracy and the end build weight, but again I feel this is reflected in its price point.
I found its the sort of frame that asks for more. It wants a suspension fork, it wants to be ridden harder, its so light underfoot, it wants you to punish it......(i keep "wishing" i was 21 again - I fear its beyond me these days).
I guess to sum up ... the next step, is to fit the inevitable suspension fork, the option had to be a Manitou for me, and i think I've finally found the right crown and steerer, a set of 90 Xt clipless pedals, I've yet to refinish the Salsa stem which i hope to be perfect for it, the brake cables of course and the rest is just mechanics.
Bitd I would have pinned this bike between a Cannondale and a Klein, the deciding factor would have been the depth of the pocket and the inevitable e-stay question...? Certainly far more boutique than either of the others imho..!
better...?
no, Just different
and in a good way.
al-onestare":2xccqcbi said:
I’m pretty confident, there won’t be anyone who gives a monkeys toss on my view of a nearly 30 year old mountain bike, but here are my
Overview and thoughts....
For me you gotta like the aesthetics of a bike, Joe Breeze calls the paint work a veneer, and he's right, but even he made a bike that was more than pleasing to look at....it actually begged you to ride it when you did look at it.
The build process for me really is like a journey, and you cant do that imho without riding it.
The Mammoth was read about bitd, sure its no C26, but it was a bike built from an idea at a time when fat tubes and e-stays were new, a time when the Klein Attitude was first seen here at the Race circuits....this was of that time.
I often Wonder would I have had the same AWE factor for this, had i seen it at the same time I picked up Dave Hemmings Newly collected Klein Attitude?
I like to think "Probably".
With my original memory of the mag review long since faded, this one came up for sale...
My first thought when taking it out of the BOX was the paint....To try and sum it up, it really is quality. The finish is VERY original Klein, Possibly the best I have seen - helped by the colour choice imho, which by modern standards is almost contemporary. But, it shouts at you, and the small Cycleart airbrushed logo a subtle reminder of those responsible, sealed forever in its history.
The Tubing; Nothing obvious, no weird and wonderful gizmos, just something simple, like a well designed book cover that holds a plethora of secrets under its covers...
Came out of the box with a Cartridge bottom bracket, some really neat internal cable guides for the internal cable runs, the rear brake run a vivid memory of the MBA article, the aluminium welding up to standard, well executed, and finished, the swaged seat-tube, but underneath, or inside the tubes, sleeves which acts like aluminium butting to increase strength and reduce weight. And that memory of it being hard to weld, and needed no heat treatment.
Nice i thought, the rear end has a cool roller for the rear brake, enough space easily for a good mud pluggin tyre, and being fair....what looks like an indestructible rear end.
It’s far lighter than i thought. The main frame, on par with its contemporaries, Klein too, but the weight is hampered when adding the fork, whilst its butted and straight, it doesn't afford the weight advantage of a Klein Attitude of its time, with the BOX fork that came with.
A cursory gander at the frame, and it was a bit like a race to get some components on it, at first it was simply about having a ride, it had been nearly 30 years. No real thought was given to spec correct, it was a frame/fork only option, so was a case of a Spare parts build.
A set of DX low profile cantilevers, XT cranks with bio pace rings, 3 finger dx rapid fires, no brand black generic seat post that was lying around, an old Turbo fit for purpose, XT rear mech DX front, a shabby set of Smokes and a set of wheels i know to be good to go....!
All told she's been out only about eight times. First thoughts were to the weight; It is light. For it’s time it probably feels 2lbs lighter than my TBG Explosive - it’s probably nowhere near, but its certainly a lighter bike despite its appearance. But then, the frame and fork on this was hundreds of pounds more than a complete off the peg Explosive, which is easily forgotten 30 years on.
The next thought was Harsh and cramped, the first stem used, a prestige with a roller was too high and short, and despite now having read the review again, it says it has a 22.5 tope tube - it sure didn't feel like it. Over time stems have been swapped out, and im nearly there, the one shown is right for me - or - nearly, but aesthetically its 5 mm too long and if i can find a suitable Salsa length, i might just find the sweet-spot.
Tyres; its had Smokes, Porcupines and some hard packs - all of them made the bike feel like skating on ice in the mud and wet, and none of them doing it any favours in terms of adding to a Harsh ride. I needed some balance, something which could hold air, add some cushion, but at the same time have a good rolling resistance and cope with the mud and wet.
Not an easy task when you’re on a budget, need something that adds to the ride and not detract from it, be period correct and in really good usable condition, if to be used for the finished bike.
The answer was eventually found in the 2.0 mud masters, amber wall, period correct, like new and with the needed tread pattern, frame clearance is good too.
I can’t tell you how it has transformed the ride. As a lover of steel, aluminium was always going to be a hard pill to swallow, and i certainly didn't expect levels like the second coming of Christ, but what a pair of tyres can do to change a ride is unfathomable.
Its a hard ride, now less harsh, but its pinpoint accurate and a little like a Newly broke stallion, the longer you ride the better it feels.
Its typically short, almost stout if your not careful with the stem, but is definitely an e-Stay, ..........The geometry of the rear end, its like... its just right, some stay lengths on e-stays are too short, some too long but this is different to ride than say the Dave Yates Vulcan, If you could close your eyes and didn't know, you would be forgiven for thinking its a double diamond frame to ride.
Climbing; there isn’t much to comment on, like any good quality E-Stay frame....uphill is a pleasure...downhill, this was far more stable, not in the leagues of an 80 Dawes with nearly 18" chain stays, but certainly on Par with others and perhaps because of the E-stay design or even the Tubing choice and fabrication, far far less twitchy than a Klein Attitude, and i think this is helped further by the Butted chromoly fork, which is so far removed from the Alu fork on the Klein.
The rear brake, Well, the low profile DX cantilevers and donor 3 finger levers left the rear brake a bit .....wishy, like you would make a wish you couldn't pull the lever to the handle bar..... sort of wish.
I eventually over came this by swapping them out for the older style XT cantilevers, it might just have come down to better cables, it might have more to do with the leverage of the cantilever, but swapping out the brake levers surprised me, it made it better, nearly indistinguishable from other rear brakes, save for say a U-Brake of course.
I think the final solution to add to the brake fade question is to use the current set up with some XT 2.0 mm brake cables. After that I wouldn’t feel the longer cable run to be even a consideration.
I think its hard to give a judgement on a bike without making some comparisons, the nearest for me being the Cannondale SM1000, again its sure not up to Klein levels, but then, being fair, the Dale, is Hand built Aluminium with a steel fork, but again the Cannondale is a whole bike for the price of the frame from the Mammoth stable BITD.
The most noticeable difference was the pin point accuracy and the end build weight, but again I feel this is reflected in its price point.
I found its the sort of frame that asks for more. It wants a suspension fork, it wants to be ridden harder, its so light underfoot, it wants you to punish it......(i keep "wishing" i was 21 again - I fear its beyond me these days).
I guess to sum up ... the next step, is to fit the inevitable suspension fork, the option had to be a Manitou for me, and i think I've finally found the right crown and steerer, a set of 90 Xt clipless pedals, I've yet to refinish the Salsa stem which i hope to be perfect for it, the brake cables of course and the rest is just mechanics.
Bitd I would have pinned this bike between a Cannondale and a Klein, the deciding factor would have been the depth of the pocket and the inevitable e-stay question...? Certainly far more boutique than either of the others imho..!
better...?
no, Just different
and in a good way.
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Wow, another bike to add to my favourite bikes on RB, a couple of the others happen to be yours also :roll: 
Love the colours, and what is the thinking behind the rear brake cable routing?
Also, personally i would keep the original forks, they just add to the overall bike, i think suss forks will dull the beauty :|
Love the colours, and what is the thinking behind the rear brake cable routing?
Also, personally i would keep the original forks, they just add to the overall bike, i think suss forks will dull the beauty :|
mk one":3dtlm4lz said:Wow, another bike to add to my favourite bikes on RB, a couple of the others happen to be yours also :roll:
Love the colours, and what is the thinking behind the rear brake cable routing?
Also, personally i would keep the original forks, they just add to the overall bike, i think suss forks will dull the beauty :|
Im unsure is the answer, i guess, the move had come from brake placement of the time, the previous use of U-Brakes and the exodus from them to cantilevers in general probably played its part, everything was being experimented with back then, even the best route to lay cables, eventually this settled down for most designers and builders leaving us with an un-spoken standard.
I agree with your thoughts on the forks, they certainly compliment the paint work, but now i have found the right steerer i just gotta fit the forks to find out if it really does perform as i would hope, the stem ive found still needs refinishing in black but im hoping the reach is right, and thanks to Nick an NOS Nitto Carbon bar can now also be fitted, but i do still need to find the 2.0mm XT cables... :facepalm:
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Very nice and a great write up.
Very nice and a great write up.
