Lugged frame builders in the UK

[otherself]

Great frame, great price. Won't be able to tell the difference in ride with any of the others like for like.

Yeah its sad Bob Jackson folded. I thought £500 was reasonable for something that i was told by BJ themselves is a 32 man hour frame.

I visited their workshop in 2012 and it took one frame builder 2 days to build a frame and 1 day to build a fork from scratch. Paint and finishing also took a good half day.

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

Yeah its sad Bob Jackson folded. I thought £500 was reasonable for something that i was told by BJ themselves is a 32 man hour frame.

I visited their workshop in 2012 and it took one frame builder 2 days to build a frame and 1 day to build a fork from scratch. Paint and finishing also took a good half day.

I thought it was sad they went under. Good frames, always fancied a tourer. I never got my thumb out though

 

[cce]

If they were really 32 man hours at 500 quid that's £15 a man hour. That's not a lot for a skilled fabricator, and that's not allowing for any of the costs of the materials, premises, employers NI etc etc etc.

It's no wonder they couldn't attract any new staff at that, the old boys must have been on just over minimum wage

the entry point for a Rourke is £1100....

 

[ibob]

If they were really 32 man hours at 500 quid that's £15 a man hour. That's not a lot for a skilled fabricator, and that's not allowing for any of the costs of the materials, premises, employers NI etc etc etc.

It's no wonder they couldn't attract any new staff at that, the old boys must have been on just over minimum wage

the entry point for a Rourke is £1100....

What I heard was that they owned the building (so the framebuilders didn't need to pay for premises), rented out the shop unit downstairs (so they also had a separate income that subsidised the framebuilders, maybe paid utilities, maybe more, dunno details), and the veteran framebuilders weren't earning that much (but maybe they paid off their mortgage years ago, loved the work, etc). Then the owners decided to sell off the building & the veterans decided that was the moment to retire, so all those things keeping costs down went away. In other words - that 500 quid price was heavily subsidised by a few private individuals with some accumulated wealth & they all decided to stop subsidising it.

 

[cce]

That makes a lot of sense actually.

A price has to be charged that makes the business viable.

 

[otherself]

If they were really 32 man hours at 500 quid that's £15 a man hour. That's not a lot for a skilled fabricator, and that's not allowing for any of the costs of the materials, premises, employers NI etc etc etc.

It's no wonder they couldn't attract any new staff at that, the old boys must have been on just over minimum wage

the entry point for a Rourke is £1100....

Rourkes don't come in stocked sizes, and will build on the customers individual body dimensions.

Jackson's off the peg frames came in ½ inch increments, i.e. 21.5/22/22.5/23 and were all mostly all lugged models so didn't need a whole lot of mitering.

 

[cce]

Rourke are the closest on price to Jackson I could find. Rourke's primary competition is probably Mercian, and their cheapest is about £1200 which would suggest that 1100-1200 about the price for making a lugged 631 in the UK.

Jackson prices were just unrealistic, propped up by convenient circumstance.

 

[chickendrumsticks]

Rourkes don't come in stocked sizes, and will build on the customers individual body dimensions.

Jackson's off the peg frames came in ½ inch increments, i.e. 21.5/22/22.5/23 and were all mostly all lugged models so didn't need a whole lot of mitering.

Robert Penn, in his book "It's all about the bike" beautifully describes the great care the Rourkes take to fit a bike to each customer. (I think his book's title was a riposte to LA's stating "it's not about the bike". No Mr Armstrong, it wasn't - it was all about the drugs...

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

£1400 853 frame and fork with stainless drop outs, Winston Vaz.

 

[cce]

Interestingly I've just turned up a post on cyclinguk forum with info on what the Woodrup Jacksons will cost.

Audax/End-End in Reynolds 725 with standard lugs and all appropriate eyelets - £1585.
Vigorelli (singlespeed/fixed) in 725 with standard lugs will - £1550
Olympus (road racing) in 725 with standard lugs - £1585
Each of these frames can be upgraded to Reynolds 853 for £150

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=141709&start=135