Lightest, stiffest most rigid steel frame ever

[legrandefromage]

Can I mention an Overbury's here? Not lightweight but very stiff and agreat climber as well as a tourer. It has taken me a year to find that out. Intitial rides left me thinking it was rubbish. Once I got out on the right trails it showed its proper colours.

 

[oldave]

An impossibe question! "Answer" limited to those that the respondent has ridden AND can only compare in any meaningful sense those which were also wearing exactly the same forks/wheels/tyres/contact points, all of which can have as great an effect on especially comfort as the frame!

Other than for weight, even the brand/type of "steel" of less import than the design/geometry.

Bearing all that in mind, there is no objective reason for my choosing a Kili in Tange Presteige. Probably just because the two I have are a good fit!

 

[xerxes]

Ignoring really heavy, cheap "no-name" frame tubes, what's the weight difference between the very lightest steel MTB frame and just a reasonably light frame?

I reckon there's only about 1lb/500g in it; that might be a lot for weight weenies, but given it's distributed across the whole frame, probably not noticeable from the saddle.

Anecdotally, back in my road riding, time trialling days, I had two steel framed road bikes, one had 531 main tubes and high-tensile rear triangle and forks, the other was 531c throughout and was noticeably stiffer and the whole bike was about 3lbs lighter. I never felt as at home on the lighter bike, somehow the heavier, lower spec bike always felt more right.

Maybe I just have no taste.

 

[hamster]

I think that's a good point - most of the perception is about geometry rather than the exact frame weight.

The real test would be riding the bikes in the dark...

 

[xerxes]

The real test would be riding the bikes in the dark...

One of my other interests is audio, where debates rage about the best interconnect cables, the sound of silver vs copper wire, valve amps vs solid state etc. etc. In listening tests, more expensive, "blingy" products generally come out best, but in blind listening tests the results are often quite random. Preconceptions seem to effect how we hear, so that monster size amp with milled aluminium case work sounds better than a small amp in a pressed steel box, arm thick cables sound better than weedy bell wire, because we sort of expect them to.

I'm sure something similar could happen with a bicycle, the hand made fillet brazed ultralight Columbus frame decked out with top of the range components feels better than the mid range Marin/Kona/Whatever with Deore LX and no-name handlebars, seat post and stem because you expect it to and having spent a fortune on it, probably want it to.

 

[legrandefromage]

Don't forget forks play a major part in how a bike feels. Spray any frame matt black with no decals is one of the easiest ways to disguise a frames origin (except a GT?).

Hifi does need more than bell wire though, reistance, capacitance, inductance, RF interferance, blah blah blah....

 

[xerxes]

Hifi does need more than bell wire though, reistance, capacitance, inductance, RF interferance, blah blah blah....

Let's not go there. :shock:

Head on over to Rock Grotto for that argument: http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi

 

[hamster]

Hifi does need more than bell wire though, reistance, capacitance, inductance, RF interferance, blah blah blah....

But frames have mass, moment of inertia, damping, Young's modulus, hysteresis, centre of mass, vibration etc etc.

I think the beguiling feel (as said) of light wheels, snappy shifting and quality tyres probably has a big effect. I'm right with you there Xerxes.

 

[legrandefromage]

Hifi does need more than bell wire though, reistance, capacitance, inductance, RF interferance, blah blah blah....

But frames have mass, moment of inertia, damping, Young's modulus, hysteresis, centre of mass, vibration etc etc.

I think the beguiling feel (as said) of light wheels, snappy shifting and quality tyres probably has a big effect. I'm right with you there Xerxes.

You forgot to mention the forks...

Funnily enough, with high end bikes I've had more disapointments than the cheapies. Expectations are higher too with the cheapies whereas I forgave bad shifting forks etc if the overall ride showed promise.

 

[barry2017]

This is not at all scientific, but I reckon most of the people I know who do really high mileages choose fairly ordinary frames as daily riders.

Really, light (but not TOO light) butted steel is probably the way to go.