Lewis Hamilton..what a bellend

[old_coyote_pedaller]

and there are those who just like to debate and argue the debate terms and have no wish to be involved in the content of the debate..highlander

I think that ties in with Neil (who I agree with about Hamilton's non-joke) making a comment about selling bridges.

 

[Neil]

Can you let me know what other drivers entered the sport in such a manner, winning their second season at such a young age?

As in what other drivers were handed a seat with a top tier team in a car capable of winning on a silver platter, all orchestrated by a team manager that financed them? None that I can think of.

Even Senna had to tough it out with Toleman his first season. Shumi brought Benetton from backmarker to Constructor's Champion...........

Couldn't agree more and that's why I don't think he's really an exceptional driver like the other two.

I think it's a mistake to think of it simply like that - just because he's not had to drive for a mid-field team, that it dilutes his abilities or achievements.

I have to say, I think it's good for their development to have some lean years - but all the same, he's definitely fast, and most definitely talented, and may well be in the leagues of Senna or Schumacher.

Now I know some will say that he was the golden boy at McLaren, but lets not forget, in his rookie year, his team mate was a very capable and talented 2 x WC. He had a very strong season, and truth be told, snatched defeat from the jaws of victory where the world championship was concerned - but then a lot was going on with the team and drivers, and it was his rookie year after all - all the same, though, he more than kept up with Alonso.

I genuinely don't believe that for most of that year, certainly the early part, McLaren favoured Hamilton over Alonso - that would be bad business sense and I don't see that in them. They may not have been overly deferential to Alonso, and maybe that was more the issue.

Pit-stop-gate was clearly a pivotal moment, in the tension becoming absolute and apparent to the rest of the world.

There have been other scenarios, in recent times, of drivers parachuted into top teams - Jacques Villeneuve and Juan Pablo Montoya - who were both relatively young when they were. Admittedly, both had raced in Champ Cars / CART before F1 (as well as other formulas) and both were Champ Car / CART champions and Indy 500 winners.

Jacques Villeneuve won the WC in his 2nd year in F1, and was Hill's only real rival in his 1st year in F1. After that, though, and accepting that William's performance dropped off somewhat, and allowing for the BAR years being rather fruitless, he didn't have the same zing that Hamilton does.

I feel Hamilton is not shy of driving talent - I think it's early - but perhaps prophetic to compare him to the likes of Senna and Schumacher - but for any driver, it's a big ask to match the results of Senna, never mind Schumacher.

He does need to evolve, though. To become truly great, I feel he needs to demonstrate the same degree of intelligence or at least savvy that Schumacher has throughout his career. If Button doesn't have quite the same pure talent that Hamilton has, he most certainly has more driving smarts - and those are important lessons to learn for Hamilton, but I wonder whether his ego is too big a stumbling block for him to overcome where that's concerned.

I also think that when the cracks start to show, to me at least, Hamilton seems like a driver that's been groomed very well for quite some time, into mostly being able to show himself as professional, and able to pull off a "nice guy" with something of a humble personality - but the reality is more of an egotistical brat that most of the time manages to project a facade nice-guy-genuine-and-humble.

But the one thing I don't doubt is his speed and talent - he just needs to become more of a cerebral driver than a purely instinctive one. That and either learn when to button-it, or show some responsibility when some flaws are exposed.

 

[FMJ]

It's the lean first years that develop character and humility (things that Hamilton is sorely lacking). If he hadn't been groomed by Dennis, and instead worked his way up through lesser GP2 teams then on to, say, Toro Rosso or Sauber and languished around in mid pack for his first year, would he have done as Senna and Schumacher did and either driven the wheels off it, or developed it into a contender like the true greats have, or sat around after the race b!tching and moaning about the car, everyone involved in putting it on the grid, and the other drivers ahead of him? I think his track record indicates the latter would have happened.

 

[highlandsflyer]

With the childlike and everyone elses fault attitude I foresee him being a Ferrari driver one day

That is funny, because my brother said exactly the same thing to me when he was criticizing the team previously. Hamilton once stated he wanted to remain with McLaren for his entire career, that in itself is rather a naive concept given today's yo yo nature of success in F1.

I can see things going several ways.

Either he pulls his socks up regarding his criticisms of the team, or he gets booted. I can imagine Ron Dennis is absolutely seething at the way Hamilton has been spouting off, and openly hinting at moving teams.

Of course, if he starts to win things will pan out differently. If not I think things will happen at the end of the season and Ferrari look very likely, considering Massa's current performance and the presumed anger Dennis must be feeling.

Yes it was unfair to refer to Button as a journeyman, but he is indeed very reliable.

If we cast our minds back to Hamilton's first season there is no doubting he was being mooted as the Second Coming.

The hype was incredible here in the UK and right across the world.

Here was the new Tiger Woods.

But especially here in the UK, after the drought we had had for so many years, for a British driver to look a certainty to take a title within a couple of years was huge. This is basically a British sport, played out worldwide.

His performance in that first season was truly incredible, and while others have indeed matched that level from the get go in F1, here was a British driver fulfilling the dream we all had.

I don't think any driver will match Schumacher's record.

Not because none are as good, Vettel is looking like a real contender, but because those controlling the sport know it would not be good for the sport so they will prevent it.

That, to me, makes for an artificial experience.

The fact they are making cars drive on tires designed to 'fail' really does go against my feeling of what F1 should be about.

When I was a kid in the seventies F1 was the pinnacle of motorsport, the cars were like space craft. You got the impression anything that could be done by the teams to gain advantage could be accommodated.

Of course that was not the case, but I was a kid.

It is true, however, that there is much more contrivance now to things, and it is all geared up to make it more 'entertaining'.

I cannot help but feel that if Bernie was in control of snooker he would introduce minimum time per shot to throw players like O'Sullivan, and if it were back in the days of Davis he would do the opposite.

I am glad they don't do refuelling now, it always made me nervous on the basis of safety, but the whole Kers thing bugs me.

Not the existence of the tech, but the fact they need to carry extra weight if they opt out of it.

I have the feeling that the changes are going to continue every season, imposed on the teams in some mad tribute to the October Revolution.

This may make for 'thrilling' close racing, and everything going down to the wire, in theory but not quite working out, but it leaves me cold.

Vettel is streets ahead in the right car, even though I love Webber and would dearly love him to get one championship in the bag before he retires, so I would be perfectly happy to see him win three championships back to back.

I don't believe they will let that happen though.

They are too late to stop him this season by the imposition of technological restraints, but if he wins by a good margin you can be sure they will do something to contain him next season.

That takes a bit of the buzz out of it for me.

 

[Neil]

It's the lean first years that develop character and humility (things that Hamilton is sorely lacking). If he hadn't been groomed by Dennis, and instead worked his way up through lesser GP2 teams then on to, say, Toro Rosso or Sauber and languished around in mid pack for his first year, would he have done as Senna and Schumacher did and either driven the wheels off it, or developed it into a contender like the true greats have, or sat around after the race b!tching and moaning about the car, everyone involved in putting it on the grid, and the other drivers ahead of him? I think his track record indicates the latter would have happened.

I get your point and largely agree, really.

I think being parachuted into a top team from the outset, with an already great exposure to the team, and buy-in from them in terms of their investment, have all contributed to him being where he is, but perhaps equally as significant - how he is.

And in fairness, perhaps if he hadn't have been gifted with such privilege at first, perhaps he would have simply knuckled down, learnt some character and humility, and prevailed.

I think he does have the talent and ability. Whether the attitude was already there, or has largely burgeoned from effectively having it all from the outset, I'm unclear on. Nature / nurture and cause / effect are unclear - it's hard to know how much is in inherent and how much circumstantial.

There's the Vettel factor in all of this - he had some time with middle-pack teams, and has also been groomed for stardom (maybe not to the degree that Hamilton has, mind). There's a certain air of expectation with him, too - and in fairness, doesn't seem short in the talent department. All the while, though - and I accept he's young - there's a certain something about him that isn't exactly endearing.

 

[highlandsflyer]

Vettel was a bit of of a cook at times, I saw a hint of the Häkkinen in his petulant behaviour, but he has had little reason to display that side lately.

For sure if Hamilton was winning we would have had far less of his dark side too.

I have started to really warm to Vettel now, and I guess that is the winning effect. Amazing driver.

 

[Neil]

Either he pulls his socks up regarding his criticisms of the team, or he gets booted. I can imagine Ron Dennis is absolutely seething at the way Hamilton has been spouting off, and openly hinting at moving teams.

Truth be told, it was that, from Monaco, I found most distasteful about Hamilton. The way he spoke about the team after qualie was truly awful. If he wasn't prepared to challenge their decision in the privacy of pre-qualie meetings, then he shouldn't have been prepared to publicly criticise or try and stitch them up afterwards.

Of course, if he starts to win things will pan out differently. If not I think things will happen at the end of the season and Ferrari look very likely, considering Massa's current performance and the presumed anger Dennis must be feeling.

As things stand - never in a million years. Ferrari have just signed Alonso on a long-term contract - I doubt we'll ever see both drivers happily line up beside each other at the same team.

If we cast our minds back to Hamilton's first season there is no doubting he was being mooted as the Second Coming.

Maybe that's a British / English thing - every local driver that's got into F1, with seemingly some talent has been foisted as the great white hope. Um, sorry, mixed metaphors and boxing analogies - poor choice of words - Next Big Thing.

As to the matching Schumacher's record - well I'd agree that I don't doubt drivers have and will come along with enough driving talent, but other aspects to Schumacher were significant in making him as successful as he was - being very analytical and cerebral about his driving, knowing about power-play within teams.

The fact they are making cars drive on tires designed to 'fail' really does go against my feeling of what F1 should be about.

It is true, however, that there is much more contrivance now to things, and it is all geared up to make it more 'entertaining'.

I'm not comfortable with the tyres or the DRS thing, either.

Too contrived, too artificial in order to spice things up. I know both have made for some lively races this year, but all the same, if they couldn't trust the teams with stalling the rear wing aero, then they could have banned it. As it is, it just seems too video-game for me.

I cannot help but feel that if Bernie was in control of snooker he would introduce minimum time per shot to throw players like O'Sullivan, and if it were back in the days of Davis he would do the opposite.

There again, though, they have tried format changes to snooker, and changes to the way it's presented in order to "spice it up" and make it more popular. And normally, O' Sullivan is at the fore campaigning about it (he irritates me somewhat with his on-again-off-again commitment to snooker).

The problem is, with a lot of these things, the huge need to chase ratings. Often it ends up pleasing nobody - alienating the true followers, and not doing anything more than drawing in a temporary increase due to the gimmick. Hitchcock had it right with the term McGuffin.

Clearly and conveniently, I'm ignoring any success Twenty20 cricket has had... exceptions and rules and all that...

I am glad they don't do refuelling now, it always made me nervous on the basis of safety, but the whole Kers thing bugs me.

Well as a technology has real world applicability - which was part of the remit, but again, it's just become too artificial, contrived and video-gamey.

If the technical cold-war, effects on costs, and PR in terms of making the sport look more on a budget are the aim, then either let them use it as is their innovative want, or just not introduce it. But the way it's been done, as with DRS, and I suppose as with the tyres, is just a bit, well too much of a plot point.

Re: FIA interference with drivers dominating, well nothing new, there - it's always all about the money.

 

[highlandsflyer]

I am all for F1 leading technological advances in the real world, there have of course been so many beneficial advances.

My point with KERS is that if you don't use it, you should not have the weight penalty. It would then be an option based on advantage only, and more intensely developed.

How far do we take the fuel efficiency and power regeneration thing though?

Are we ultimately going to see electric F1 cars?

I just don't want to see the last bastion of British engineering excellence being cowed in favour of global politics, nor do I want to see Grand Prix racing becoming the gentle cousin of my brother's precious IndyCars.

 

[tintin40]

Dan Wheldon won this years Indy 500 Class driver

 

[KeepItSteel]

''Now MP4-26, either you go faster, or i'll tell them you called me a gollywog''