Latex inner tubes updated

[Retrorockit]

Latex inner tubes have been around forever. Daily air loss is a known issue. Delicate too. But comparable performance to tubeless (weight/ride/speed).
From my Ebike experience, tubeless sealant in the inner tubes works very well to prevent flats. Enough of that topic.
On my Vintage 26" XC Softtail I'm looking to save weight on tires,tubes and rims. But still don't want any flats if I can help it.
So Rene HERSE Extralight 26x2.3 Gravel slicks to save a huge amount of weight.
I tried their TPU tubes, but Latex sealant didn't stick to them. RH Does offer a TPU sealant now. To add to the tires, or carry for repairs if you prefer to actually get flats.
But I moved on to Latex tubes. I added Caffelatex sealant, which has no natural Latex in it, so no Latex solvents to keep it in solution, or react with the inner tubes. It's use with latex is known among EU racers. It also foams up in the tire so the whole tube is coated inside right away. 4psi daily loss, comparable to TPU tubes. The RH Extralight tires ( and similar others) are known to ooze sealant when run tubeless. Also tubeless wants to lift the beads off of the rim, and tubes tend to hold them in. A big issue with older rims that weren't intended for tubeless tires.
I'm only a few days in on this, but the bike rides very nice, and the bike can sit a while without the tires completely deflating.
There is also a Veggelatex sealant that is compatible. Longer life in the tire, but no foaming action. I have a liter of the original stuff to use up first.

 

[Lhatch4]

I'm interested in updates on this. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Retrorockit]

Caffelatex is very hard to clean up when dried. They sell a special solvent (which I don't have) so keep a rag handy if you decide to try this.
Due to the foaming action let it settle a while before releasing any air (after seating the beads) or you will have a big mess.
If this works anything like it did on the Ebike, there won't be much to tell.
I used Michelin Aircomp tubes (not sold here in US) with Schrader valves. Vittoria didn't work so well for me. A defective set as far as I can tell.

 

[Retrorockit]

Rene HERSE lists 2 pressures for fastest rolling with these tires 33# and 40#. I've been running 33# but if I use 40# I can probably get a weekends riding in w/o adjusting the tires again. Some users report 10-15 psi/day loss with these tubes. It's nowhere near a Butyl tube but it's much more reasonable than a bare Latex tube.

 

[Retrorockit]

I have no experience with tubeless conversions. But users with similar light weight tires complain that it takes up to 3 days for them to stop leaking.

 

[Retrorockit]

I took a ride at 40psi today. It sharpened up the handling of the XC bike on pavement. 33psi was cushy but a little bouncy too. The trails in my area are so unchallenging that 40 psi kind of makes them more interesting. So that's the plan for now 40psi every few days. 2 days I'll be at 32psi, and 3 days 28#. All good numbers for me.

 

[Frankenorange]

One thing to watch out for with the Michelin and Vittoria latex tubes at 40psi in a 2.2+ tyre is the rim side of the tube at each spoke hole. Using cotton rim tape; the tubes would try and push the tape into the holes in the rim and the tubes would deform at those points. Hard plastic tape would be a better choice but i found they walked too much on the rear and the valve would end up at a goofy angle and stressed in the valve hole.
Either side of the valve was always the worst , for some reason , and the tube would get quite thin there and easily burst. When deflated the tube had a bunch of little nipples running around the rim side of the tube. Some really thin at those points.
Michelins seemed to be the worst offenders, but the Vittoria tubes also did it. I had a couple let go either side of the valve and it is a dangerous rapid deflation. Once while the bike was leaning against a fence and once indoors so no harm done. I think 40psi was just too high, but i was trying to stop the high volume tyres from wobbling about so much. Maybe they would be more stable on wider rims but i was using older narrower Mavics.
Another thing; It may have been a faulty batch of Michelin tubes but i had a few that were more affected by some contaminates. I am not sure what it was that i had on my fingers one time, but there were visible finger prints and thinning of the tubes, at those points, as the tubes got older. Again; i had a couple burst where this thinning was taking place. I started using Vittoria tubes because i had so much trouble with the Michelin tubes.
At some point i went over to using narrower tyres, because i got fed up with the lack of clearance for mud and leaves , and use much lower pressures. The tubes are happier not having to stretch as much to fill the volume of a balloon tyre, the tyres are more stable, and i now just have to deal with normal punctures from thorns etc.

 

[Retrorockit]

Thanks for sharing that experience. I think I used Stan's Tubeless plastic rim tape because it's what I had at the time. So I might be good there. I'm using tubes sized to match the tires. I'm not sure If you were using smaller tubes and stretching them to fit or not.
Now that there is a TPU sealant available that would be another maybe safer option. I don't think 40psi should be an issue since latex in road bikes is routinely run at over twice that pressure. I'm running old 19mm Mavics also. I only converted the rear tire because that's where I had the slow leak in the TPU tube.
There is something else going on. The rear tire has cement coming out from under the tread where it's cemented onto the tire casing. The front isn't doing that. So whatever is leaking through the tube is reacting there. So that may be the end of this experiment. These are hand made racing tires due to the very thin casing material. Machine made tires might not have this issue. But those "tyres" are the whole purpose behind this lightweight setup.
I'll break it down and see what I can determine. But it looks like sealed TPU is going to be the solution, and RH products all around.
I prefer Schrader valves, so I may shop around for that feature. Also RH sells 27.5 TPU tubes for 26" tires. So maybe Tubolito will be up next?
This dissolving of the cement may have something to do with the Vittoria latex tube failure.

 

[Retrorockit]

Looking at Sckwalbes site, they offer a heavy duty TPU tube for MTB with Schrader, and another with Presta that's apparently lighter.
They refuse to offer Latex tubes at all. They say the Latex tube needs to be replaced every time the tire is dismounted. Nobody advertised that factoid before. Plastic TPU valves yuck!
I've notified Efetto mariposa, and Rene HERSE Cycles of the issue. But maybe with TPU sealant available Latex tubes are thing of the past?

 

[Frankenorange]

I'm using tubes sized to match the tires. I'm not sure If you were using smaller tubes and stretching them to fit or not.

My experience was with Michelin Air Comp latex that are good up to 2.2 and Vittoria Competition latex that are good up to 2.3 so at the upper limit with a 2.2 tyre. The tyres were Conti Raceking and Speedking which are true to size. The rim tape you mention is probably the fix.

Regarding Tubolito tubes.... if you use the Schrader valves ; check the core is tight before first use. Things may be different now , but a common complaint was leaking from the core. If you fill them with sealant then you will re-tighten them anyway.
I have an emergency tube, with a presta valve, that is my last resort after a latex spare, but it doesn't hold air at all well. It is a genuine tube, and brand new , but only gives me about an hour before it needs more air putting in it. Can't find a point where the air is coming out which is annoying!.
If i put air in it and leave the wheel standing it holds air ok, but If i use it then it gradually goes down. It is like it is burping , somehow , which is very odd. Maybe the valve core is iffy?