KARMA Ti frame - Photo's added (and consolation prizes too)

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Damn! I've been looking for that exact saddle for some time - if whoever wins it wants to sell it on please PM me.

(I still don't want a number - the way things are going Stevo is going to give himself an RSI writing out those popsicle sticks, I don't want that on my conscience!)
 
I'd like a number please. Alway regretted having to get rid of my morati. This looks like a lovely frame. Good luck to everyone
 
Steve-O,

The kindest thing you can do is to put the frame back on the wall...based on the quality of the repairs in the picture as well as the condition of the tube at the dropout, the bike is not fit to safely hit the trail again.

I've repaired many lost causes, some you just have to be judicious about and let them go...this is one.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news,

rody
 
I'm sure any engineer who was tasked with the repair would give an honest assessment of their own abilities...

As it is, the frame was obviously abused by a previous owner ie: treating an XC bike like a 'jump bike' as youngsters are like to do? :roll:

...but the damage has been very neatly repaired, by someone who knew NOT to grind his welds down afterwards just for the sake of making it look 'pretty' and who very obviously observed the correct technique because there is no oxidisation in the repairs whatsoever.

...and Maksters Rock Lobster damage was worse than this and repaired just fine by all accounts, so this should be very straight forward for someone who can weld Ti in the first place. You can see from the photo that it is a clean break at the weld - a weld that obviously did not have enough penetration initially.

Not only that, the frame was welded up from individual tubes in the first place - repairing the chainstay/dropout break is no different.

I'm no lightweight and I would have been very happy to ride it had I gone ahead with the project at the time.

My own credentials as an engineer include being able to weld - in 1979 I used to design my own custom motorcycle frames;

As an impoverished student with no access to fancy cutting equipment or professional jigs I built my frames from box section steel because it was easy to cut to length, chop out a section with an angle grider, bend it to shape and weld up the join. Taking my inspiration from Bimota I wrapped my rails around the engine instead of above it. I cut-and-shut Honda 400 Four petrol tanks to make TZ-style tanks and used pattern fibreglass TZ single seats intended for the track. Twin headlights were mounted to the front of TZ pattern full race fairings. I used cut down plastic rear mudguards with the tail light mounted in the seat YEARS before the 'Hugger' was invented.

People laughed and called me a cowboy, but it worked and as it turned out it took the industry several more years to catch up with my innovative design when Yamaha brought out the first steel DeltaBox framed 'Race Rep...' :!:

Whether it be motorcycles, cars or now bikes I have always found there are two ways to do everything;

You can go to the 'Specialist' who will suck his teeth, shake his head and give you half a dozen different reasons why something can't be done;

Or you can go to a professional engineer who says 'Yeah sure, when do you want it by?'

Another case in point: I once had a lowered Opel Manta that went like the proverbial brown stuff off a stick. Unfortunately, as was so often the case, longevity never appeared to be a material concern in the automotive industry and the floor wells rotted out... :cry:

I took the car along to a young guy in Loddon whose father had helped him set up in business who promptly welded me two new floor pans in from sheet steel and didn't charge me a fortune into the bargain.

When it failed it's next MoT I asked the Tester why and he said 'You're lucky to be alive, the floors rotted out completely!'

'Really?' says I, lifting the carpet to show the pristine repair, 'What's that then?'

Needless to say I got my certificate.

My glass is always half full... ;)
 
Steve,

I don't intend on getting into a pissing match, and really debated whether I should even post anything as I know you intend nothing but good will, but I decided it was too important not to let you know the frames condition. I'm just trying to save someone else some future heart ache.

While I do not discount your experience, please do not under estimate mine.

From the few pictures posted, it is clear there are multiple issues with this frame;

The first being the torsional failure extending from the bb area up and around the bottom of the down tube, terminating on the drive side. This fatigue failure should have never been welded along the failure line, as torsional propagation cracks will continue past the end weld. The proper repair for this failure is the replacement of the down tube.

The fractures at the seat tube/bottom bracket are typical for the manufacturer along many of their clients lines. Poor miters and insufficient purge have been evidence in the years following, an unfortunate result of their rush to jump into the Ti market during the 90's. While this area can be easily repaired, the contaminated welds on your frame indicate that it was not done correctly. These oxidized welds will fail again in time due to the excessive heat and poor purge coverage.

The dropout in question suffers most from a poor design, placing all the torsional stress of the dropout on a hinged end plate. It broke at the weld as the design does not transfer the stress to the strongest point of the joint. The interior of the tube shows high oxidation levels...from a repair standpoint it will be very difficult to properly clean this section before welding. The correct way to repair the dropout would be to remove it fully from both stays, bead blast the interior of the tubes, grind away the existing weld, and extend a custom machined insert from the inside of the chain stay to attach more fully to the surface area of the dropout. This will allow for greater torsional rigidity and longer dropout life in cyclic stress loads.

Could the frame be made safe again? Yes. Replace the DT, BB and modify the dropouts as noted.

Is is worth the monetary expense to do so? Only the lucky(?) winner can answer that.

My opinion...you want good Kharma?... put it back on the wall.

rody
 
Can we remember

Someone is offering something for free and is being honest about it's condition

Who ever wins it....it's upto them what they do with it

Karma threads should never turn into pissing contest chaps
 
sylus":jphyvn9k said:
Can we remember

Someone is offering something for free and is being honest about it's condition

Who ever wins it....it's upto them what they do with it

Karma threads should never turn into pissing contest chaps

Thankyou, it is just meant to be a bit of fun afterall - people buy butterscotch tyres with no life left in them for silly money just to finish off their favourite 'Garage Queen' so why wouldn't someone want this for P&P only?

...and I reiterate; I would have no qualms about riding this, I'll just never have the funds to do it justice - the draw will be on Sunday 7th as indicated...
 
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