It's kicking off in London...
- Thread starter JohnH
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silverclaws
Senior Retro Guru
I have done my military service, seven years of it and all it taught me was being a pacifist is the way to go, in fact my boss in the military didn't like my pacifistic tendancies even then.
I do not agree smashing things up is the way forward, but it will happen, look even the armed forces get paid for doing it, so it's nothing new and at least the governments understand that action well.
But if violence is to be actioned, I rather it be on inanimate objects that can be repaired or replaced than people, for people matter more than objects.
I do not agree smashing things up is the way forward, but it will happen, look even the armed forces get paid for doing it, so it's nothing new and at least the governments understand that action well.
But if violence is to be actioned, I rather it be on inanimate objects that can be repaired or replaced than people, for people matter more than objects.
silverclaws
Senior Retro Guru
Yeah, there is that aspect to think of, I agree.
But we are all but carbon units.
But we are all but carbon units.
sgw":2g2knv4c said:Anyway you might be glad to hear that you will have a rest tomorrow, I am off to Leeds to have words with a bank manager.
11am - Walkout!
11.30am - Meet at Parkinson Steps, Leeds uni
1.30pm - Occupy the Banks!
Anyway lots to do, back tomorrow night if I don't get banged up or hospitalised by our brave boys in blue (and full protective gear of course)
Hasta La Victoria Siempre
Got to say that I have had some involvement with these bank sit ins today. I did have some sympathy with the Students and the Education cuts but no longer.
What a bunch of ill informed militant Marxist idiots. I can only describe these protest as the young and naive being led by professional militants who would in all honesty jump at any chance to demonstrate for demonstrations sake. Some of the rhetoric I heard being shouted by these students was just absurd, ill-informed and just utter nonsense. Most have zero career aspirations in their chosen discipline with many just seeing University as a way to put off growing up and taking responsibility for their lives. This is not an 'off the cuff' remark but is what I have learnt from questioning and interacting with persons present.
We as a Nation cannot afford to waste thousands of pounds on educating young people for educations sake. We should of course reward excellence and academic ability but some of these soft 'ology' degrees are just a complete waste of time. They provide little or no career routes, are laughed at by industry and don't even provide any further academic research or dare I say it even any original thoughts.
Wait until the Spending Review is actually implemented. The UK is financially on its knees. Mass redundancy is looming. It's going to hurt a lot of people, jobs, homes and family's are going to be hit hard. Much harder I feel than many would dare to fear.
Do people honestly think that the UK has unlimited finances that can be simply spent indefinitely without balancing the books ??? I hear some people shout 'but we are wasting billions of pounds on Wars when we cannot afford to educate our children.' Wait until the next 7/7 type incident happens here on our streets.
Take a look at the Current threat levels against the UK
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/counter-te ... eat-level/
These are real, I have been in locations and environments where I can tell you that this is not a government imposed conspiracy but the real deal.
The little jibe that you give against Police Officers attempting to uphold the Queens peace is laughable. These demonstrations are causing additional financial grief and hardship for many small businesses. Causing disruption for people trying to work in our City centres. Today I witnessed a large number of people who were trying to get about and undertake their daily slog and grind just shouting remarks 'get a job.'
Also why do you fear being assaulted by Police who would only use force against you if you either offered violence, attempt /cause damage to property, disregard a lawful direction or instigate or take part in a Breach of the Peace. Of course as you no doubt know that force would have to be Justifiable, Proportionate, Legal, Accountable and Necessary. The militants will always say we are living in a Police State with our Civil Liberties being crushed under the jack boot of the Police. Get real and take a look around the world and be thankful that you live in the UK and are able to demonstrate in the first place.
I think that many of these Police Officers can think of far better things to be doing than to be standing in the freezing cold policing your right to demonstrate and listening to an absolute load of crap.
These demonstrations are just another example of the ultra minority ultra left wing Marxist rent a mob jumping on the bandwagon. To here and see these 'demonstrators' at the end of a rally requesting that people hand in their placards as they need them for the next rally is laughable. Some of these placards are ancient as many of them have anti-Blair slogans on the rear.
Sorry no sympathy here
Gadro BSc (Hons) University Of Wales Cardiff 1992 (not an 'ology)
Just back from Leeds Demo and occupation.
Sorry to disappoint, I didn't get arrested and only a couple of digs in the back from one particular sociopath in uniform as I blocked their camera. Policing general good natured but numbers nearly matched protesters so they weren't too worried. Talked to a few of them who privately supported the protest. They know that their own children will be discouraged from further education and realise that there own jobs will soon to be in the firing line like the rest of the workers.
A great day of peaceful if noisy protest. Occupation being organised by independent students very wary of both the NUS's social climbing leadership and other "elements" who would like to take control.
Bank occupation plan was a successful red herring. Other Uni buildings temporarily occupied then vacated to allow studies to continue after canvasing students.
Cable wobbling, Wales not to increase charges, LibDem disarray growing, and Ketteling frustrated in London providing hilarious footage of pie eating plod in full riot gear chasing fit young people all round the city.
The fight will go on.
Without the sympathy of those who now profit from the free education they received if necessary. Sympathy, like voting, being a total waste of time anyway. It takes actions to make changes.
Wait till the workers get going.
Sorry to disappoint, I didn't get arrested and only a couple of digs in the back from one particular sociopath in uniform as I blocked their camera. Policing general good natured but numbers nearly matched protesters so they weren't too worried. Talked to a few of them who privately supported the protest. They know that their own children will be discouraged from further education and realise that there own jobs will soon to be in the firing line like the rest of the workers.
A great day of peaceful if noisy protest. Occupation being organised by independent students very wary of both the NUS's social climbing leadership and other "elements" who would like to take control.
Bank occupation plan was a successful red herring. Other Uni buildings temporarily occupied then vacated to allow studies to continue after canvasing students.
Cable wobbling, Wales not to increase charges, LibDem disarray growing, and Ketteling frustrated in London providing hilarious footage of pie eating plod in full riot gear chasing fit young people all round the city.
The fight will go on.
Without the sympathy of those who now profit from the free education they received if necessary. Sympathy, like voting, being a total waste of time anyway. It takes actions to make changes.
Wait till the workers get going.
silverclaws
Senior Retro Guru
Gadro":yfe4nybx said:sgw":yfe4nybx said:Anyway you might be glad to hear that you will have a rest tomorrow, I am off to Leeds to have words with a bank manager.
11am - Walkout!
11.30am - Meet at Parkinson Steps, Leeds uni
1.30pm - Occupy the Banks!
Anyway lots to do, back tomorrow night if I don't get banged up or hospitalised by our brave boys in blue (and full protective gear of course)
Hasta La Victoria Siempre
Got to say that I have had some involvement with these bank sit ins today. I did have some sympathy with the Students and the Education cuts but no longer.
What a bunch of ill informed militant Marxist idiots. I can only describe these protest as the young and naive being led by professional militants who would in all honesty jump at any chance to demonstrate for demonstrations sake. Some of the rhetoric I heard being shouted by these students was just absurd, ill-informed and just utter nonsense. Most have zero career aspirations in their chosen discipline with many just seeing University as a way to put off growing up and taking responsibility for their lives. This is not an 'off the cuff' remark but is what I have learnt from questioning and interacting with persons present.
We as a Nation cannot afford to waste thousands of pounds on educating young people for educations sake. We should of course reward excellence and academic ability but some of these soft 'ology' degrees are just a complete waste of time. They provide little or no career routes, are laughed at by industry and don't even provide any further academic research or dare I say it even any original thoughts.
Wait until the Spending Review is actually implemented. The UK is financially on its knees. Mass redundancy is looming. It's going to hurt a lot of people, jobs, homes and family's are going to be hit hard. Much harder I feel than many would dare to fear.
Do people honestly think that the UK has unlimited finances that can be simply spent indefinitely without balancing the books ??? I hear some people shout 'but we are wasting billions of pounds on Wars when we cannot afford to educate our children.' Wait until the next 7/7 type incident happens here on our streets.
Take a look at the Current threat levels against the UK
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/counter-te ... eat-level/
These are real, I have been in locations and environments where I can tell you that this is not a government imposed conspiracy but the real deal.
The little jibe that you give against Police Officers attempting to uphold the Queens peace is laughable. These demonstrations are causing additional financial grief and hardship for many small businesses. Causing disruption for people trying to work in our City centres. Today I witnessed a large number of people who were trying to get about and undertake their daily slog and grind just shouting remarks 'get a job.'
Also why do you fear being assaulted by Police who would only use force against you if you either offered violence, attempt /cause damage to property, disregard a lawful direction or instigate or take part in a Breach of the Peace. Of course as you no doubt know that force would have to be Justifiable, Proportionate, Legal, Accountable and Necessary. The militants will always say we are living in a Police State with our Civil Liberties being crushed under the jack boot of the Police. Get real and take a look around the world and be thankful that you live in the UK and are able to demonstrate in the first place.
I think that many of these Police Officers can think of far better things to be doing than to be standing in the freezing cold policing your right to demonstrate and listening to an absolute load of crap.
These demonstrations are just another example of the ultra minority ultra left wing Marxist rent a mob jumping on the bandwagon. To here and see these 'demonstrators' at the end of a rally requesting that people hand in their placards as they need them for the next rally is laughable. Some of these placards are ancient as many of them have anti-Blair slogans on the rear.
Sorry no sympathy here
Gadro BSc (Hons) University Of Wales Cardiff 1992 (not an 'ology)
I hear what you are saying, and I know full well that the police suffer the brunt of anger from both sides in every situation, it is a thankless job I am only glad I failed the final interview for Lancashire Constabulary back in '89, they I believe did me a favour back then, or not,I joined the pissing armed forces instead.
Anyway, regards those 'thickos' on useless degree courses, they exist to reduce the stats of the unemployed young, and to be fair to attain a degree I am sure you know requires an amount of self discipline to meet deadlines and get things done, or it is the dole for them, college is therefore a better option than learning how to fend off your employment advisor down at the joke centre to keep oneself from being shafted into a low paid meaningless job that will end up with the hassle of having to go through all that paperwork again to get back where one was before being shafted, a soul destroying cycle that engenders hatred for authority in whatever form that takes.
But the threats that we are presented with, those things that are known to affect our countrymen, perhaps the question should just be asked why is it we are threatened so, what is it we have done to warrant such behaviour. So from some sources we hear it is because of international concerns, our country's support for foreign conquistadors and corporate interests, where our defending forces are being used for attack in foreign lands, against a people 92% of whom of the male population admit to not even having heard of 9/11, but it was recently revealed Afghanistan, the killing lands of empires has vast mineral reserves beneath it's hard land, who knew?
But in our country's actions overseas where it has been said as ever our defensive forces are a tool of corporate interest as they were through history are harming foreign countries, is it any wonder designs are made against us. It should be asked and asked loud, just what does our government stand for, the health, wealth and goodwill of UK citizens, or the political front to corporate foreign interests and the enriching of their pockets via the blood and wealth of the brain washed man on the street. If the former, then, they should be dissasociating this country from others aggression for the UK citizen, but there is even corporate interest here, for terrorism is big business and we do not want to follow the American route with their patriot act and all it engenders, the TSA sounds positively scary.
Now, it has been suggested by some on this website that the poor and unemployed perhaps have too much time on their hands, well, that goes with the job description, but what it does for the thinking, is give them time to think, and there understand much about this country, it's workings and whom does it serve, and sadly that belief is with many, not the people of this country.
Perhaps there is some truth to that old urban myth that it is known that as soon as one signs on for unemployment benefit, one becomes known to MI5 as a potential political activist and that due to the opinions formed through having the time to thoroughly research and understand a supposed hidden mechanism of this country. Personally from my point of view, I would say this is highly likely, as if I were in MI5's position, I would suspect the unemployed as being a potential problem for the establishment as the devil makes work for idle minds with plenty of time to think it all out and those who through their discipline of study are exposed to the writings of others that struggled.
But as to the police, normally I have learned to dislike them, that for their variable attitude towards the public, one rotten apple and all that, tends to spoil the barrel, but it engenders distaste and distrust due to their position. But recently I have detected a change and that due to the weekends incident, politeness and genuine helpfulness I have never experienced before and the feeling that those uniforms are genuine people just doing the best job they can in difficult circumstances, so much so the Detective in charge got a commendation from me for the experience, he seemed genuinely pleased to hear it. But in chatting with one copper, I asked how was the mood towards the forthcoming cuts to their service, the reply was there is a genuine worry and wonder at just how they will be affected beyond what they have already been told. I said that to cut the police made no sense at all when it is likely there will be more protests and they with the possibility of getting out of hand. Further to understanding the feeling of genuine worry, I found in relation to those who are exercising their legal right to protest against government actions, they have sympathy for they in the course of their duty have seen how the maligned live, often a very far cry from the public image, but obviously draw the line at criminality for that can bring out the worst in people on both sides of the situation as erstwhile normally decent people do things they later come to regret, so much they are caught up in furore of the battle.
But regards demonstrations, it is my belief there are indeed genuine demonstrators who believe in their action, but there is also a lot of not so genuine people there too, it is those the press would be better employed in isolating for the benefit of all of us and our property.
sgw":27pquceg said:Sorry Nick, I haven't much time to do a point by point just now. Thanks for your reply, I think we understand each other a bit better now.
I have to quickly refute your accusation of bigotry though. The definition of "intolerant of beliefs that differ from ones own" is fair enough. I would claim though that I have shown remarkable tolerance to the opinion of others on this thread, Even the stupid ones.
A bit concerned about the Churchill quote too. Do you seriously think that any deviation from Conservative views is intellectual weakness? I didn't think even most Conservatives would believe that. Rather bigoted too don't you think.
I just like the Churchill quote, I see it as the luxury of youth being the freedom to care, and as you get older, generally the worries are more mundane and day to day - and personal, for example, my late reply is due to being at work all day, and then taking hours to get home due to snow, I haven't had time to deal with issues that don't directly affect me until now. I don't believe that any deviation from Conservative views is weakness, of course not, I don't even directly believe the quote, but you have to admit that you are the exception in these demonstrations, age wise, so there is at least a grain of truth in it.
FWIW, I see it as conservative with a small c and liberal with a small l, in the context of the quote. However, you are taking it too literally I think, it's not meant to be entirely serious.
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