Is Retro faster?

[mattr]

Clocking a few mph more over a stretch of rock garden or gnarly stuff due to modern gubbins isn't jaw dropping in terms of flat out top speed in my book. Let's see some top speeds!

I've already posted a 120mph top speed. What more do you want?
Proper competitive UCI events where top riders turn up like that have been banned for a long time as they were all but impossible to insure, not to mention a lot of the top riders were unwilling to ride them (I can vaguely remember Miles Rockwell saying the kamikaze was going to kill someone, and that he was unlikely to ride it again.)
Sticking a massive chainring on a bike, pointing it downhill and praying isn't actually design either. I'd bet that doing that today on a current dh bike, with brakes and suspension that wouldn't look out of place on a motorbike, and tyres that are more suitable to dh, would see the riders carrying a lot more speed through the corners, and either exceeding the historic top speeds, or killing themselves. Actually, I'd reckon sticking a big ring on some of the current crop of FS XC bikes would probably see the top speeds being beaten, they are probably similar in capability to a 20 year old dh bike.......

But of course, top speed is everything. Actually being more capable over terrain and faster in 99.9+% of situations is irrelevant. :roll:

 

[M-Power]

If a bike, old or new feels fast, it is fast. The most important distance that a bike can travel is the six inches between our ears.

Nice. Some of my bikes feel fast and I know they're just bikes like the others but they add something of themselves. Unquantifiable character and soul.

That's it in a nut shell.

 

[Woz]

Clocking a few mph more over a stretch of rock garden or gnarly stuff due to modern gubbins isn't jaw dropping in terms of flat out top speed in my book. Let's see some top speeds!

I've already posted a 120mph top speed. What more do you want?
Proper competitive UCI events where top riders turn up like that have been banned for a long time as they were all but impossible to insure, not to mention a lot of the top riders were unwilling to ride them (I can vaguely remember Miles Rockwell saying the kamikaze was going to kill someone, and that he was unlikely to ride it again.)
Sticking a massive chainring on a bike, pointing it downhill and praying isn't actually design either. I'd bet that doing that today on a current dh bike, with brakes and suspension that wouldn't look out of place on a motorbike, and tyres that are more suitable to dh, would see the riders carrying a lot more speed through the corners, and either exceeding the historic top speeds, or killing themselves. Actually, I'd reckon sticking a big ring on some of the current crop of FS XC bikes would probably see the top speeds being beaten, they are probably similar in capability to a 20 year old dh bike.......

But of course, top speed is everything. Actually being more capable over terrain and faster in 99.9+% of situations is irrelevant. :roll:

Of course I hear you and I'm playing a bit of the devils advocat for the sake of discussion - after all the point
is about faster (ie. measured in mph and the bigger being better) right?.

I'm also trying to make some sort of comparison between BITD and today at the highest level of sport (if that's
even at all possible). A specific speed record attempt can not really enter in the argument as it is very much a
specialist solo type of event, rather than a race which as the same conditions across board for all entrants
which would even out and generalise capable speeds using readily/widely available cycling kit.

Sticking a big chain ring on, longer and lower stem is design to acheive a faster top speed on straight
stretches. Not sure praying helps . Again, we don't see this today, which basically says modern
is simply slower from a top end speed perspective where aerodynamics start to play a more significant part.

There's something very ironic going on though. With all the advancements of tech to acheive wonderous
capability, and with all the advances in helmets and body armour for better rider safety the most renowed
(and fastest?) downhill race is now banned :!: :? I really don't get this insurance issue to be
honest....but then again the UCI is notorious for screwing things up.

There's a few good videos of a modern MTB tandem going down the Mammouth, and it would be interesting
to have a ball park figure of how fast they are going. At some points they overtake solo riders who appear
to be standing still so they must be shifting it :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyGPq5IRZS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y_BBXDpxhE

 

[Tifishlips#1]

Re:

I'm gonna hear some smack for this, but its the truth ...
I can take my 1995 Chehalis Washington built klein pulse loaded with shimanp M910XTR and a fox RL80 fork to any cross country trail where I locally live and I can drop most riders on any bike they are riding on.
the only riders who can keep up with me are the ones who are younger and in great physical shape. Even then, most cannot take climbs with me.
if we are talking hardtail crosscountry 26" racers, I'll take my pulse over any new or old frame.
its about how well you take care of yourself and your conditioning, but its also about finding a bike you fit and trust and is designed to perform at a high level.

 

[Stick Legs]

If you train retro and race modern I bet it would help.
The psychological edge alone would be worth 1%!

 

[mattr]

Re: Re:

and I can drop most riders on any bike they are riding on.

Not smack, but it just shows a) how little difference it actually makes to xc type riding, 90+% is down to the rider and b) a donkey on a cutting edge machine is still a donkey.

 

[mattr]

And Woz, if you want a quantifiable difference, try finding a 90s WC DH course that is still in use (and that hasn't been updated) and see what the time differences are.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

Again retro was faster.

On a fast lovely run off Goathland top, I went past a long travel modern disc equipped modern bike and he's no slow coach.

Still I went past a late 80 Rockhopper eventually damn person in control was a Looney but with no suspension compared to my mid 90s luxury Judy suspended Pace.

So it swing and roundabouts. Vintage just isn't fast enough compared to retro.


*thank god modern bikes still get punctures

 

[legrandefromage]

An 80's MTB is basically a road bike stance with fatter tyres, you will go faster on a fire road.

Modern is bolt upright, it sort of floats over everything enabling a magazine shot style stance every ride because you're gnarly.

Both have their places but its the gnarly look that magazines seem to think still sells. Thankfully now we seem to moving slowly away from this and many and simply go for the bike that they actually need rather than what a magazine tells them. Many a time, I pass riders in full armour and massive travel bikes and wondered where on earth they are going to get their rad skills badges out here in the Fens...

 

[ultrazenith]

It doesn't prove anything, but I got a strava KOM a couple of days ago on my oldest bike (a rigid 93 M Trax 300 with Altus A20 and DX thumbies, on a grueling +170 m climb through forest, quarry wastes, up onto open moorland).