Is Retro faster?

Some people are happy in their 'bunker', away from the serious BS that seems to affect cycling. MTB is such a fractured and now quite small niche, theres not the guaranteed returns in bringing out product X every 6 months. Buyers are no longer falling for it.

Unfortunately the internet is killing off the history with short lived facebook groups wiping away what was what 20 years ago with only a few groups like this huddling together keeping what actually happened 'alive'

The MTB came into being to traverse natural landscapes and trails. The first 5 years of MTB was to negotiate all day trails that you couldnt reach on your road bike. The 'modern' bike is a result of an arms race between manufacturers and trail centres, each getting more extreme. Trail centres are basically theme parks, contrived thrills. A 'retro bike' simply was never designed for the man made trails, the stutter bumps from 29'er even giving 27.5 users headaches.

I'm quoting here, SRAM are lazy, they didnt want anything to do with Shimano's front mech patents and some clever marketing later we have 1 x 12 systems which people now swear by. Despite the physics, gearing is now back to front with weight savings not on the 'unsuspended weight'.

Uphill riding is almost impossible on a soggy suspended slack angled heavy modern MTB, the physics of the bike simply doesnt allow it, its designed for speed going downhill.

Older suspension designs mimicked rigid bikes of the day to eliminate pedal bob and such like. Now the bigger bars, slacker steering with the longer trail 'forward geometry' are there to smooth out as much as possible, enabling the rider to point and shoot which feeds back into the use of trail centres, man made thrills to generate commercial income.

A modern bike is no longer designed for a 20 year life span, its an arms race, manufactures have absolutely no interest in longevity.

Trail centres are the golf courses of the cycling world, sanitized and safe organized thrills where the score at the end of the day is what counts.

'natural' trails are boring, a retro bike is boring but it is the most capable of way getting you from A to B via that lovely scenery over, just near that forest on the other side of that big hill.

Just my random cobbled together guff as usual but theres a lot more to be said.

''Horses and kit kats''
 
legrandefromage":dyt6w3av said:
The 'modern' bike is a result of an arms race between manufacturers and trail centres, each getting more extreme.

Uphill riding is almost impossible on a soggy suspended slack angled heavy modern MTB, the physics of the bike simply doesnt allow it, its designed for speed going downhill.

Older suspension designs mimicked rigid bikes of the day to eliminate pedal bob and such like.
You can still buy brand new bikes that are designed to do this, but instead of looking at the bikes in the shop window, or prime spot on the displays, or all over the magazines, you need to rummage around on the bottom half of page 17, or the stands round the back of the shop outside the toilet door where the "XC race bikes" are. Which are far more capable than the MTBs of yore, but still give a similar experience. A to B in (relative) comfort. It's the difference between buying (for example) something from the Trek Caliber or Top Fuel range, which are capable XC bikes, HT or FS, or getting a Fuel EX, which is not a capable XC bike. On the other hand, it probably outsells the Caliber or Top fuel bikes 5 to 1 at many price points.

legrandefromage":dyt6w3av said:
A modern bike is no longer designed for a 20 year life span, its an arms race, manufactures have absolutely no interest in longevity.
Can't disagree with that. I doubt my newest bike will last as long as either of the Raleighs, what with flexible carbon elements and half a dozen pivots, mostly seated in carbon. The Scale carbon might do. Unless i crash it.
 
I'm not aware of any carbon/Kevlar or such materials with a long shelf life, the resins degrade with UV light, so you may need to ride indoors if you want to keep it :D
 
Most of the coatings and paints used on anything remotely modern (~20 years at a guess.) will have UV protection. Not to mention the top layer or two of CF on the scale is only decorative and serves no structural purpose.

So no, the resin won't degrade in any sort of structurally relevant way. Even if i move somewhere really sunny.

(30 degrees and clear blue skies from horizon to horizon)
Biggest danger is crashing it.
 
Re:

The way I see it is the busier the Trail Centres the quieter the real rides are for me!

I'm only a Retro MTB rider because my bikes grew old with me and still do what I enjoy doing......as for speed who cares?
 
mdvineng":38o7ktmc said:
I'm not aware of any carbon/Kevlar or such materials with a long shelf life, the resins degrade with UV light, so you may need to ride indoors if you want to keep it :D

I raced recently on a boat built in Kevlar in 1982, with a 25 year old carbon fibre mast. It all still works as designed. Shelf life of uncured resins or pre-preg materials is indeed short (1-2 years) - but that's a manufacturer component problem not the finished product.

I think LGF nailed it, and his thoughts are about unsuspended weight are new to me - 1x simply seems a very unbalanced way of doing things, not to mention that you end up with less gear range! But it will sell lots of cassettes at eye-watering prices, presumably even when one sprocket wears.

My LBS mechanic says that it's all go so tetchy that he now repalces cassette, chain mech and hanger together as the only way to stop problems. It's insanity that manufacturers no longer consider long-term life - consumers revolt in the end.
 
Re:

I thought I'd add by 2 peneth. Just did a retroride last night at Dalby with my regular Tuesday night group (I was the only one on a retro by the way). I am one of the older members of the group (4:cool: but can still hold my own on most sections other than short step uphills where I seem to be able to trounce people 25 years younger than myself (which is very satisfying). My usual steed is a 2016 Canyon Strive (160mm Travel).
Last night I was riding my 1992 Nishiki Alien with AMP F1 front forks with a whopping 40mm of travel. When I retro ride I go the whole hog with lycra, old helmet etc so I get the whole feel.
This morning my wrists and derriere hurt but I always have a great time whilst retro-riding. Whilst I had to hang back on the rocky technical sections I flew uphill and could out accelerate all my companions on the flat easily. Everytime I ride 580 bars with that elbow's out feeling I feel like I'm 21 again.

I don't get the modern is better than retro or vica-versa. They are very different beasts.
I recently rode Coed Y Brenin for the first time since 1995 (The days of the beginner, sport and expert routes) and was amazed the technicality of the Beast route but the Strive just ate it up. I ride things now that I would never ride on a retro but that's not to say that I don't thoroughly enjoy my Retro Rides.

Oh and by the way I got 4 PB's on Strava last night.

Here's a link to last night photo

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 9303765458
 
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