Is Retro faster?

[Barneyballbags]

If retro was faster, Peaty would still be winning World Cups on his rigid Hei Hei.

 

[Neil]

I never have a problem setting up cantis. Sure, the SLX hydros on my Giant full squidger beat them, but the cantis are more than up to the job of handling a 255lb rider in any weather. In really can't fathom why people reckon they're difficult to set up.

I've always run cantis, really. There's been the odd bike where I've either temporarily run a V brake on, or other bikes, like kids bikes that have them stock.

I recently built up a bike and made a deliberate choice to use Vs - first time for me - at all other times my choice would have been cantis, but chose Vs in this instance, because I was deliberately using kit I cared least about.

The revelation I had was in comparison, how easy Vs are to setup and get them working. With cantis, it can be a more fiddly, painstaking process to get the best out of them - the more frequently you do so, the more quickly and optimally you tend to do so. From all I see, this is the reason - if many people have always found getting cantis setup properly, something of a mystery - and looking at bike pics I see posted here (and elsewhere on t'internet) that's a pretty safe assumption - then it's no wonder Vs were heralded as the Obi-Wan-Kenobi to Princess Leia.

It takes about 2 minutes, with precious little other thought, other than lining up the brake blocks (which in turn is just that little bit easier if you've got one of those Tacx tools), winding out the barrel adjuster, tightening the cable clamp, winding back the barrel adjuster, quick tweak of the spring tension screws to make sure they're centred and pulling the same on each side. Done.

No obsessing about the optimum length of brake pad post, and angle of the dangle with cantis.

Now I'm not saying that makes them better, nor more powerful - in my experience they're not. They're just loads easier, and take a lot less thought and tinkering to get them to work at / near their best.

For me, it's been a revelation I've never properly understood before, because by and large I'd never really done much with them, doesn't mean I prefer them, have "converted" to them, or am an advocate for them - I'm not. I just now get why so many think they're Brian.

 

[Spanky22b]

Re: Re:

Is this rigid v rigid and full suss v full suss retro and new forms ?
Paul

For me Retro is a 80's fully rigid xc bike with cantis and the only options being toe clips and a hite rite. For modern it would be a 120 mm full bounce with lock out with a dropper seatpost.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

120mm is sooooooo 2005.

 

[shogun]

Re: Re:

Our local rides have recently had a good mix of retro and modern bikes and I can honestly say I am never out braked by a modern bike with my canti set up.

Question, have you always been an XC rider? I mean I raced downhill for nearly 15 years, I've tried a lot of brakes, from early 90s cantis through hydraulic rim brakes and many flavours of hydraulic discs. They have never, ever, stopped getting better, though the pace of change has slowed in the last ~5 years. There is no question that current brakes leave even the most fastidious anorak's vintage cantis for dead. Absolutely no question. If you're out riding a vintage bike with a vintage chassis and modern bikes aren't outbraking you, none of you are riding hard enough to remotely test the brakes*. That's not a pejorative, its just reality.


*Or the modern bikes have Avids, har har.

 

[ultrazenith]

Re: Re:

Our local rides have recently had a good mix of retro and modern bikes and I can honestly say I am never out braked by a modern bike with my canti set up.

Question, have you always been an XC rider? I mean I raced downhill for nearly 15 years, I've tried a lot of brakes, from early 90s cantis through hydraulic rim brakes and many flavours of hydraulic discs. They have never, ever, stopped getting better, though the pace of change has slowed in the last ~5 years. There is no question that current brakes leave even the most fastidious anorak's vintage cantis for dead. Absolutely no question. If you're out riding a vintage bike with a vintage chassis and modern bikes aren't outbraking you, none of you are riding hard enough to remotely test the brakes*. That's not a pejorative, its just reality.


*Or the modern bikes have Avids, har har.

As someone who's never used disc brakes, how exactly are they more powerful? Off-road I can lock my wheels with cantis, and I have enough modulation in between zero braking and a locked wheel. Aside from the obviously better wet weather performance, what can discs do that cantis can't?

 

[troje]

Re: Re:

As someone who's never used disc brakes, how exactly are they more powerful? Off-road I can lock my wheels with cantis, and I have enough modulation in between zero braking and a locked wheel. Aside from the obviously better wet weather performance, what can discs do that cantis can't?

That's an intriguing question and all very true what you mention. I do have bikes with all sorts of brakes including discs, and I would always pick the one with hydraulic hope discs if I need to choose a bike for a severe descent.

It's not in the stopping power as a good set of M950 V-brakes do provide enough stopping power to lock the wheel. Maybe it's a mental thing? I certainly lose speed with a lot more confidence when using discs, compared to any rim brake. I brake later, ride more aggressively and the overall feel of discs is just something unmatched by any rim brake.

Control is a mental thing.

 

[Spanky22b]

Regarding the brakes conundrum,i'd like to see a well set up pair of cantis out perform a well set up pair of Shimano Saint brakes. I'd like to see a comparison with them down make or brake at Inners for instance,that'd be fun

 

[Raging_Bulls]

Re:

My Scott's XT cantilevers need a firm squeeze with 3 fingers to throw me over the bars.
My Bulls' Formula disc brakes need a slight stroke with one finger to throw me over the bars.

Conclusion : thanks to the improvements in braking, you can now hurt yourself just as bad with much less effort.

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

Regarding the brakes conundrum,i'd like to see a well set up pair of cantis out perform a well set up pair of Shimano Saint brakes. I'd like to see a comparison with them down make or brake at Inners for instance,that'd be fun

Saint is a DH specific groupset, so it'd be a bit of a daft comparison as DH specific cantis are pretty thin on the ground. After all, you wouldn't compare a Mondeo to a Defender off road and down hill, would you. But compare a 1990s Mondeo to a 2014 Insignia, and the difference ain't so great. Sure ones smoother, not polished, but fundamentally it doesn't do anything the oldest car.can't. Same with my canti bikes compared wit my SLX equipped Trance X. Sure, the Trance is less prone to environmental issues, but the bottom line is.I'm a 255lb lump of blubber and jelly and the canti equipped bikes in my fleet get me to work, across the trails, tow a child trailer and go touring just as readily as the Giant. 20 years of progress haven't bestowed magic powers or hover ability, just brakes.