Identifying another old frame.

[Derek]

The story so far. Having felt the need to re-create my childhood I answered a Gumtree ad for a 'Flying Scot'.
Now, having tried to prove it's heritage, I find myself with a nice frame but one which is probably not a Flying Scot. I've submitted the following pics and details to Bob Reid and he rejects it as a FS.

http://www.flying-scot.com/core/welcome.html

Much to my disappointment I have to accept this. So, the quest is now on to Name that Frame.

The headtube...Under inches thick paint were two holes exactly matching the spacing of an FS badge. These holes had copper rivets therein which had been filed flush to the frame. A FS badge was supplied although probably not the original since there were no removal marks at the rivet hole location.

This is the crucial problem. Stamped on the BB and the inside of the fork crown is D 1. If it were a true Scot it should read 1 D. :cry:
I was hoping this would denote a frame from 1954 but the D and the 1 are interposed. Wrong! Any ideas as to which frame maker used this type of numbering? I did suggest to Bob Reid that it might be possible that someone came to work on the 2nd of Jan 1954 having imbibed just a tad to much of the amber nectar and had picked up the wrong teep by mistake. 'Clutching at straws' springs to mind.

Also on the BB is the stamp RGF. French I believe? Rattrays did use this make of BB in the late fifties.

Some other identifying clues. The frame lugs appear to be Nervex 86/158

and the fork crown Nervex Pro

More to follow...

 

[Derek]

Simplex rear drop-outs

and front fork ends

Rattrays definately used this rear brake bridge in the mid fifties...

And very rarely this seat tube termination.

The frame is 22" seat post. Weighs 4lb 8oz and 6lb 2oz with the forks. 1" steering tube and English BB threads.

Any ideas or input would be most gratefully received.

Derek.

 

[SeeingisBelievingGTMuseum]

Simple stamped dropouts and fork ends so likely a production bike and nothing that was originally big doolar or fancy.

 

[Derek]

Simple stamped dropouts and fork ends so likely a production bike and nothing that was originally big doolar or fancy.

Tnxs. Hear what you're saying. I made a mistake calling them 'Simplex'.
Rattrays used this type in the 40s and 50s calling them Stallard.
From Bob Reids FS web...
http://www.flying-scot.com/rattray/scot ... _ends.html




.

 

[SeeingisBelievingGTMuseum]

depending upon the age of the bike though, who knows maybe stamped dropouts were the standard. Te lug work is great as you have pointed out.

 

[Old Ned]

Simple stamped dropouts and fork ends so likely a production bike and nothing that was originally big doolar or fancy.

Tnxs. Hear what you're saying. I made a mistake calling them 'Simplex'.
Rattrays used this type in the 40s and 50s calling them Stallard.
From Bob Reids FS web...
http://www.flying-scot.com/rattray/scot ... _ends.html
.

Percy Stallard manufactured the dropouts for his own frames and also sold them into the trade. Used by quite a few frame builders in the early 50's.

 

[keithglos]

Probably mid 1950's before forged ends were commonly used, Simplex or Agrati.
The front fork ends look strangely unfinished. Also very few builders used the Nervex crown, although very strong it did not look as good as a cast crown could. If it takes a 27.2 seat pillar then probably butted 20/23G seat tube.

 

[Derek]

I've got a 27.2 pillar and it almost, nearly, but not quite goes in. Don't know by how much to wedge the slot open till it might/does.

 

[Derek]

Another clue. Wire brushed the right fork and revealed this.

Small oval with 'Molybdenum' clearly visible in the lower half. Does this indicate to anyone the type of frame material?

 

[Derek]

Answering my own posts now :idea: . Seems it's the logo of Accles & Pollock. Looks like I've got Kromo fork tubes if not the whole frame.

come on folks. any ideas where the D 1 frame number originates? please. Local bike guys are saying it's almost certainly from the early/mid fifties.