I don't get why some people don't get ebikes.

[greencat]

Ah but that's conveniently ignoring a huge part of the carbon footprint, I'll accept your premise that an electric motor is more efficient in it's use of energy than a human after all the human produces plenty of waste heat as they pedal their bike but once you add in the recharging of the ebike battery and the production of the battery/motor/controller etc to the total carbon footprint I suspect the balance will favour the pure human powered bike again.

I'm not against e-whatever's but I wish we would be told the true total impact on the planet of e-this verses old-fashioned-that.

I'm currently trying to get fit again following foot surgery to try and relive the pain following an industrial accident many years ago that stopped me riding bikes for the last couple of decades, as tempting as an ebike would be given I live in an area that nothing but up and down hills for miles around, I'm using a turbo trainer instead to slowly increase the workload as riding these hills is something I can't manage yet.

One of my neighbours posts his ebike rides on strada but doesn't state he's riding an ebike, all the locals must think he's the next Eddy Merckx.

If you watch the previous video, and read a few other studies, IIRC they do take the additional impact due to manufacturing of ebikes into account - and it still came out ahead - especially if you are a vegan riding an electric bike. Essentially, the major additional carbon impact of ebike manufacture is down to the battery, and that's equivalent to around 500 cups of tea or a large steak. That's not per mile/km, but in total. Apparently, it takes roughly 100kg of CO2 to manufacture a normal bike, and 165kg for an electric bike.



This stuff is very counter-intuitive - but I keep coming back to the notion that human powered replacements for things that can be driven by electricity aren't in widespread use because humans aren't very good at energy production. Even gyms don't find it worthwhile to harness all of the human energy generated to keep the lights on. Also electric motors/batteries on bike are tiny - basically not much more than an electric drill/screwdriver. I suspect most readers here have one of those.

Does this mean you shouldn't enjoy riding your non-electric bike? Of course not it's still one of the most carbon efficient forms of transport, just not the most efficient (under certain circumstances). But equally if you are riding an electric bike, especially instead of using a car (even an electric one) for say, commuting - you shouldn't worry either. Normal bikers and ebikers can share the road together content that they are both using some of the environmentally friendly forms of transport. The question we should be asking is why on earth does eating 3-5 large steaks have the same carbon impact as manufacturing a bicycle, regardless of type? (the average person in the UK eats around 36 steaks each year - enough to make 7ish ebikes).

Ten years ago, I'd have absolutely been in the camp as some of the posters here, ebikes aren't proper bikes, are hugely wasteful etc. In fact, I still take the piss out of my eMTB riding friends. But I've come to appreciate their utility as part of a transport mix, while still enjoying non-assisted riding for pleasure and fitness.

 

[riskllama]

because heavy, ugly & expensive. maybe 10 or so years down the road when all the bugs are ironed out & my body starts constantly reminding me that maybe they aren't so bad after all...

 

[synchronicity]

What does that last ebike weigh?

Whats not to like ? (not mine)
View attachment 839902

It looks very heavy. 24.5kg? No thanks.

EDIT: £7,899.99 POUND??!!!

Good lord I'd rather have a GSXR600! Sod your emissions!
Oh. I see those are not made anymore.
Strange times we live in.

 

[MattiThundrrr]

Good lord I'd rather have a GSXR600! Sod your emissions!
Oh. I see those are not made anymore.
Strange times we live in.

I guess that is kind of the point. Maybe we're the strange ones...

 

[dyna-ti]

This will probably make you unwell

Why have one motor.... when you can have TWO!
Yamaha Y-01W all-wheel-drive

 

[greencat]

This will probably make you unwell

Why have one motor.... when you can have TWO!
Yamaha Y-01W all-wheel-drive
View attachment 839980

That is one strange looking beast. Like a gravel bike and motorcycle had a secret lovechild.

 

[synchronicity]

That! Is a monstrosity!
Wot the actual fark.
An industrial design wannabe with too much free time on his hands.
Is that what they think we want?

I shall resume building (or rather assembling) by own non-e-bikes, as the current market is not fit for consumption.

 

[Aech]

I'm sorry but I simply don't believe some of those numbers.

the average person in the UK eats around 36 steaks each year

Who eats 36 steaks a year ? I consider myself a meat eater, I like a steak but I never eat anything like that many in a year which means someone else is eating more steaks to account for the steaks I'm not eating, then you have the vegetarians and the vegans share as well so someone somewhere must be eating steak everyday for the numbers to balance.

Why pick on the beef industry when the automotive industry is a much better target given bikes and cars are both forms of transport ?

Apparently, it takes roughly 100kg of CO2 to manufacture a normal bike, and 165kg for an electric bike.

Apparently the average CO2 emissions for manufacturing a petrol/diesel car are 5600kg or 8800kg for an electric car, that means you can make 56 normal bikes for every car or 53 electric bikes for every electric car.

Frankly I'm amazed the numbers aren't far worse for the cars.

If they are seriously pushing the "green values" of bicycles, I doubt they have accounted for the maintenance of said bike, when I was younger I was regularly covering 10,000 miles a year on my bike as it was my only form of transport. Ride to work and back 5 times a week, ride to the shops, ride to see mates, ride for pleasure at weekend etc etc, I regularly wore out tyres, brakes, etc

If I'd had a ebike back the I would have worn out the battery in a couple of years.

I'm not saying ebikes are bad, just I suspect they are cherry picking the numbers that best suit the narrative they wish to push.

because humans aren't very good at energy production.

I can totally believe that statement.

A quarter of all the CO2 emissions per year are down to food production for humans to consume, if we are serious about cutting CO2 emissions we need to reduce the population of the planet, this has the added benefit of reducing all the other CO2 polluting activities as there will be less demand for them as the population is now smaller. It's a simple win-win solution.

 

[greencat]

I'm sorry but I simply don't believe some of those numbers.



Who eats 36 steaks a year ? I consider myself a meat eater, I like a steak but I never eat anything like that many in a year which means someone else is eating more steaks to account for the steaks I'm not eating, then you have the vegetarians and the vegans share as well so someone somewhere must be eating steak everyday for the numbers to balance.

Why pick on the beef industry when the automotive industry is a much better target given bikes and cars are both forms of transport ?

You got me, it's not quite 36. The UK population eats 2.4 billion steaks:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/british-meateaters-eat-2-5-billion-beef-burgers-b1946149.html
Divide by 67m which is the approx UK population at the time:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...tins/annualmidyearpopulationestimates/mid2021
and you get 35.8. And yeah, as a vegetarian for 35+ years, someone's eating my share of them. Vegetarianism is a minority sport though (roughly 10% of the population are either vegan or vegetarian. They just feel more prevalent because they'll tell you ):

https://www.finder.com/uk/stats-facts/uk-diet-trends
Someone eating a bit less than steak a week doesn't feel widely off the mark outside of my fellow hippy plant eating friends, family and colleagues.

I choose steaks because that's the comparison the video I linked to earlier made - and it does demonstrate the carbon impact of some of the foods we eat (posters were previously sceptical that human + extra food + bike was more emissions than human + less food + ebike). . I have no axe to grind re: meat eating. My missus would be an obligate carnivore given the chance and imo some people cannot thrive without some meat consumption perhaps due to genetics etc. She is positively crawling up the walls with cravings after two weeks without it. Personally, I cannot tolerate many of the meat substitutes or most dairy products so could never become vegan.

I hear you re: bike maintenance costs, but the Trek report cited in the video does talk about lifecycle emissions which presumably has a figure for maintenance emissions - and they are also assuming a bike (of either kind) lasts approx 20K km. That doesn't feel wildly off the mark. At my peak, I was probably doing 10K km per year - and a heavily used bike might be pretty much done in 2-3 years. I have to believe that manufacturing replacement brake pads, chains etc is rather less than the 100+ kg of CO2 it takes to make a brand new bike. I'd be surprised if it was more than 10kg per 10K miles, but have no stats to back that up. Eating one less steak per 10K miles probably more than covers them.

But yes, cars are pretty bad CO2 wise and humans eat a lot, and meat is a big part of the footprint. Regarding population, it's is beginning to peak or is on a downward trend in many countries. IIRC (and I'll let you google those stats if you find it similarly incredulous), China looks to have peaked already - about 7 years ahead of schedule. Many western countries are already below replacement rate in terms of births.

 

[synchronicity]

You seem to be forgetting that money has a footprint. No matter what you buy, even if it's a service not a product, somewhere down the track, the environment pays.

The more you spend, generally speaking, the worse it is for the environment.

Any time you buy something, anything, it's essentially a form of trade. There is the buyer and the seller. But the seller then uses that money to go and BUY something ELSE for himself! Or save/invest it. In which case the bank has access to it and invests in other businesses (who also sell products, or even if they are selling services, which need products to supply their services).

And even if you buy a service not a product, does the one providing the service then go and buy a service for themselves? Or do they then go and buy a product? And if they then do go and buy a service, is that a service that is going to support someone else selling more products? Probably.

I for one fail to see how an £8000 ebike is 'good' for the environment. Better than a non-ebike costing half that.

You keep talking about steaks and food as if that's all that matters.

For one thing, where does the money go?
When you buy a nukeproof bike for £8000, what do the company directors in turn spend that money on?

Who owns Nukeproof? SIGNA Sports United. Who is the CEO? Stephan Zoll.
"SIGNA Sports United had revenue of $1.11B in the twelve months ending March 31, 2023"

I'm willing to be that Stephan Zoll is not a vegan. I'm willing to bet he owns several high-performance sports cars, flies around a lot, and has a sizeable footprint.

You can't really buy your way out of climate change & environmental destruction.