Holdsworth Frame Numbers

[keithglos]

What a beautiful frame. Chainstays look like round/oval/round, I have been unable to find when Reynolds first made them. It was quite common for framebuilders to reshape fork blades, but I can't remember 7/8 chainstays straight taper. I was looking for a pre war Brown Bros catalogue, can't even find that now.

Back in the 40s I tried most available gear changing mechanisms, including the Cyclo Ace. Also prewar Simplex single roller gear, Super Champion pro (Osgear) with the de-tension extra cable, but by 1950 was using Cyclo Benelux 10 speed ( 5 and 2),with their rather poor handlebar controls. I was able to change both gears at once off the saddle. It was mid 50s before I was able to try a Paris Roubaix Campagnolo 10 speed in a genuine road race. It was well out of date by then, but interesting changing the front changer with the back wheel undone.

I seem to have wandered off topic, please delete if you wish.

Keith

 

[anidel]

It is indeed a really beautiful frame. Very, very, happy with my purchase.
Fork blades are correct to the frame, Russ-style fork type, don't think they were reshaped.
I never heard about 7/8 or 3/4 differences and didn't think it would help age this frame. I shall look into it.

As for the wandering off topic, no problem at all! Always love to hear about these. Rest assured we all would love to hear more.

As for the Cyclo Ace I shall soon find out. It's on this one now

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Actually we have one fact wrong.
Cyclone was built as a path up until 1936 for sure.

I own the 1936 catalogue and it shows the Cyclone as a path/road bike or frameset only: https://1drv.ms/f/s!As8SZOqzOEnHtNlDSqhQTbqioI4MAw

totally forgot about that piece of information.

I still think the one I've won is an earlier one (1934 or 1935) as in this catalogue there is no mention of the Chater Lea fittings for the Cyclone
(if we still assume this is a Cyclone frameset, which I think it is given it seems to be the only path/track option)
Actually scratch that, the Cyclone was sold up until 1937 (it's road only in the 1938 catalogue) also as a path with the option of Chater Lea fitting (it clearly shows on the page even! so blind I am).

So, to summarise, this looks like a 1934-1937 Cyclone path with Chater Lea fittings.

Just looked at the descriptions on the 1934 & 36 Cats. lists Chater Lea in 34 and Brampton in 36, would this include BB? if so I guess this should be form 1934. Not sure what happened in 1935?

 

[anidel]

In the 1936 cataloguethat I linked above, in the Framesets section it was available with Brampton, Chater Lea, B.S.A. fittings for either Path or Road model.

So that doesn't rule out 1935 or 1936.

Prices were £5/5 for Brampton, £6 for Chater Lea and £6/5 for B.S.A.

 

[anidel]

Re:

Btw just found out the Cyclone was available as road/path in 1937 too. But it didn't sport the Russ style forks, has a pump and front brake.
Probably the image is showing the road model.

Will add more info tomorrow.

 

[anidel]

Here is the Cyclone offered as bike in 1937.
It's an in a nice little racing handbook.

 

[anidel]

Actually is it ok if I post here my findings on this frameset?

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Its difficult to pace this with only 9 pre-war numbers found to date, All I would say is that number is very low. There is a 1939 frame 6015 with a VCC dating and it is generally assumed the 5 digit numbers started in 1964 around 6000 ish. With frames 1, 2 & 3 around 1930, this too has to be early thirties I would have thought. Have your heard back from VCC?

 

[anidel]

Its difficult to pace this with only 9 pre-war numbers found to date, All I would say is that number is very low. There is a 1939 frame 6015 with a VCC dating and it is generally assumed the 5 digit numbers started in 1964 around 6000 ish. With frames 1, 2 & 3 around 1930, this too has to be early thirties I would have thought. Have your heard back from VCC?

That 6015 from 1939 is mine too, it's the one above actually.
Have not heard from him yet, usually he's quite quick, might be on holiday.

 

[rsw1]

Hi,
I've just taken ownership of number 32019. With chrome sloping crown forks and chrome stay ends, Campag ends, wrap over seat stay, I presume it's a 1968 Super Mistral. There's some original paint on it plus a lot of bad overpaint which is a shame. What I find a puzzle is that it's small - 19.5 inches centre to top and I've not found any mention of so small in the on-line catalogues. Anyway something for me to look forward to spending some time getting back on the road. I haven't yet figured out how to load photos here.