Holdsworth Frame Numbers

[baronsouthside]

Re:

Thanks for reply. I have emailed 'skip' through the contact details on the Vintage Trek website with my theory and I'm waiting on a reply. The vintage trek site says it has a copy of a hand written serial numbers with notes on all frames so I'm hoping that will say for sure. The fact that the 531cs tubeset was being used by Trek in the same year is interesting. My 1984 date comes from the spec of my bike, the colour of my bike, Campagnolo dropouts, and the tubeset used. In 1985 I think the frameset changes to 531c and in 1986 the paint scheme changes but by that time production had moved. My serial number H130920 is stamped on the BB and the forks.

If I'm correct then i suppose it can go a number of ways, Either Trek made the frame in the USA for Holdsworth (adding an H to the serial number) perhaps as a prototype using the new type 531cs frameset (that they say was developed for them) maybe before Holdsworth started production with it, or,

Trek made it for Reynolds to use as a 'salesmans' frame that was used to sell the tubeset to Holdsworth, or,

Holdsworth were perhaps making 531cs framesets for Trek (adding an H to the serial number for a Holdsworth build) and one of the Trek serial numbers slipped through the net and got badged as a Holdsworth,

Im in not doubt that it's an 'original' Holdsworth as why would you fake it to that extent? It just happens to have an anomaly for a serial number, or i could be wrong!!

Feel free to add my bike to the spreadsheet. Serial number H130920.

Trying to get better pictures but i need to resize them.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Thanks, it would be good to see the frame and the reply to your enquiry. I think, if I understand the 1984 Trek numbering page, this must have been built by them. We see similar example of Holdsworth frames being built one year and sold the next. With yours being May looks like it would have been numbered and built early 1984.

I have to say that ‘H’ is intriguing and if the paint and decals look original then it could have been some tie up where they were built by Trek and sold as a Holdsworth. I have no knowledge of that so lets see what others know.

I am happy to add it to the list on the basis of being badged as a Holdsworth, but the only section I can see it fitting is in the others for the time being. If we can establish a link between Holdsworth and Trek then I can set up a new category and this would be the first number.

I await pictures and further replies.

 

[baronsouthside]

I've double and triple checked my serial numbers this morning and it seems to match a Trek 610. 25th April, 1984. I may have had a typo :roll: in a previous post (now edited) but my Trek theory still holds. Off to work now but ill get pics up soon.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Ok, so I assume the typo means this was made in April? The first Triath-Elan we have with 6D number Suggests Jan 84. As you say doesn’t change the fact you have a Holdworth badged frame with a Trek number. I guess trying to establish a clear link with Trek built Holdsworths being sold would be the key.

I have it in the other group for the time being, lets hope we can get some more clarity.

 

[baronsouthside]

dwscrimshaw,

Im trying to put myself off this Trek idea and put it down to coincidence that Trek just so happens to have 531cs frame with that number, So while i wait on vintage Trek getting back to me... I went on a web search to see who else was using 531cs tubing. Due to the short timespan 84/85 of the tubeset not very many it seems. Trek say the tubeset was developed for them but in the UK Coventry Eagle was using it. So... I found a Coventry Eagle Supreme with 531cs tubing that seems to have the same lugs, suntour levers, RD and FD as mine. I still think mines is an "original' 1984 Holdsworth but this makes more sense than the trek idea. Ive dated my rear deraileur to Feb 84 and the front deraileur to Nov 84. Im now thinking its a xmas build and Holdsworth perhaps couldn't complete the order book without outside help. Would this Cov' Eagle idea tie better with the marlboro connection at that time? Cant find any info on Coventry Eagle serial numbers though. Still struggling with pic uploads. They are all too big. Jonny

 

[dwscrimshaw]

I have to say I have never heard of a connection with Coventry Eagle either. I am sure there are better people who can advise on these tie ups. That number doesn't fit any of the usual Holdworth systems known of. These are basically 4, 5 and 6 Digits mostly with leading zeros but a few exceptions. Letters were added some times, but I have not seen them with a 6D number. The problem with this number is it is 6D with a letter and starts with 1. We do have odd numbers, but these are from 1985/6 onwards.

Follow the Coventry Eagle theory, but you need to find a clear tie up with Holdsworth, as with the Trek theory. Holdsworth owned CB and Grubb, that is well documented. They also supplied small numbers of frames to other shops and co.'s to sell under their names or as Holdsworths in other countries, US particularly. The digits of that number looks to match the Trek system and maybe the H is for Holdsworth if you can establish a link between them.

I think some pictures of your frame would help and some assessment of the originality of the paint work etc. Is there any mention of Holdsworth on either Coventry or Trek history sites? Googling the models for these two companies to see if you can find pictorial examples of their numbering systems on actual frames would help. I did notice on the trek site they said they started with steel frames, if you can find out how these were made and if Holdsworth were involved, I don't think an early Trek based on a Holdworth design is such a bad thing. They are very popular now and well established. I do think if you can establish a link it would be Holdsworth assisting Trek not the other way around, in return Holdsworth might get more access to the US.

Lets hope for some more discussion.

 

[Wileyone]

You should post this on Bikeforums. There are members there that actually worked for Trek.
But I don't think you will find that Trek used Frames made by Holdsworth.

 

[Peachy!]

Still struggling with pic uploads. They are all too big. Jonny

Jonny, the photos need to be reduced either by pixel size (1080 wide I think) and no more 512k in memory size, this can be a pain now that modern smart phones can take photos at 2 or 3meg that are 3000+ pixels wide.

I reduce mine either on my laptop/pc using the edit option in photoshop or on my mobile/tablet using an image resizing app, a good free one is “Image Size” although the poxy adverts are a pain.

 

[baronsouthside]

Re:

Thanks for the tip. Hopefully managed to get the pics resized. Sorry for the thread hijack.

 

[baronsouthside]

Re:

Another picture. Front deraileur dated to Nov 84.