Holdsworth Frame Numbers Update

[Stonehamman]

Hmmm! The lugs on 2391 look to be the closest to mine. But mine doesn't have a sloped fork. I guess the 1962/64 serial number change over is a bit of a confusion. The chap I bought it from claimed to have had it from either the late fifties, or early sixties, so I'm betting on early sixties and I'll be looking for some age appropriate parts to get it back on the road. It has GB Coureur side pull brakes, though the levers are wrong, and a Huret-Sachs front mech though it should only be five speed. Wheels are pretty nasty chrome rimmed affairs and the cassette is a much later Shimano, as is the rear mech.

 

[keithglos]

Re:

From what I can see this frame looks more like mid to late 50s.
Plenty of gear hangers by the mid 50s, Campagnolo Simplex and Cyclo.
Any chance of some more pics?

Keith

 

[dwscrimshaw]

Usually I would say ID the model first then work on the date from the number, but in this case Holdsworth only seem to have used 4 digits at specific times. That was, for factory frames, early 60's with typically a curved brake bridge and early 70's, with straight bridge. The 70's group is the least well defined group of numbers as it seems to run in parallel with the more common 5D numbers and possibly used for contract builds. The use of 4D numbers in early 60's is well documented. The only other time 4D numbers are seen is for the shop builds below the 100th frame produced. These would have the first two digits signifying the year which is clear not the case here.

I hope someone with better knowledge of the models can ID this, but I would suggest if a Holdsworth it is a 1962-64 build.

 

[Stonehamman]

Re:

Yes. My frame has a curved rear brake bridge so I'm going with 1962 to 1964. Makes a difference to the components I'm sourcing (and 60s stuff is stacks cheaper than 50s!!!). Thanks for all the info.

 

[dwscrimshaw]

yes, hope it goes well. Also that fork crown is typical of the period, another recognition point to compare with other frames.

 

[CBguy]

Stonehamman,

Any chance 1203 is a Claud Butler?

Fluted wrap over seat stays were seen on Cordon Bleu from '59 to '61 as well it had same Nervex Pro lugs. Holdsworthy Claud Butler serials after take over (59 to early 60's ) is a tad confusing but this number I believe would fit in '59. Although... Cordon Bleu usually didn't have pump pegs (as yours) or lamp braze on.

Only Holdsworth model i've seen with both those features is Cyclone in 57 and 58. Not aware of other models with both those features, particularly during early 60's where Dave says this number fits for Holdsworth. Could be that it was a special build at shop by Collard rather than factory?

Perhaps more pics will help? Where on BB is serial located - across or along BB edge?

Doug

 

[Stonehamman]

As you can see from the photo of the bottom bracket (!) the number runs across the tube rather than along it. It matches the number stamped on the steering tube. The guy I bought it from was adamant that it was a Holdsworth. In fact, he was very clear in that he had always wanted a Claud, but couldn't afford one, so got a Holdsworth instead. Mind you, he was quite old so maybe his memory was a bit iffy! I've a attached some more photographs so I hope that helps in the identification process! Incidentally, I've owned and restored many decent old bikes over the years - a late forties Claud Butler Avant Coureur; a Claud track frame; a 1950s Carlton Flyer that had a tandem sized bottom bracket; a Barry Hoban road bike... and more!

 

[keithglos]

Re:

So this frame looks even more mid 50s with Simplex ends. Holdsworth and Holdsworthy normally used domed and slotted chainstays, possible Simplex ends a later mod?

Literally hundreds of frame builders used nervex lugs in the 50's. Nothing there tells me it is Holdsworth or CB. Probably equipped originally with Simplex gears and hand controlled front changer.

Keith

 

[Stonehamman]

I've just been to see the original owner and he has a photo of himself and the bicycle from the nineteen sixties. He has promised to scan it and send it to me. But definitely Holdsworth badged.

 

[Stonehamman]

I thank Retro Guru for his comments. The picture of the bike in the eighties definitely shows 'Holdsworth' on the down tube. But no other legends. And now, after I showed a photo of the stays to a traditional cycle shop, the owner showed me an old Hetchins with identical double fluted stays!!! So I'm now even more confused than before. AAARGH!