Help with insurance claim.

[Garuf]

My reasons for believing the frame to be to do with Roy is that the livery carries his name as a signature on the top tube and has a bracket for a number to be carried, Also that's who the rider my dad got the frame off told him he got it from. I called and spoke to Rourkes and they said they had built frames for him personally, I didn't think to ask dates but they said the frames they built were 753 this would explain the wrap over seat stays. My frame carries 531c branding through out but as said my brother says it has silver braising. It's complicated this isn't it.
The frame is meant to be from 1987 if that helps at all? I can ask to get it weighed too?

Edit* on thinking back the guy I spoke to said for "the family" not specifically Roy.

 

[Old Ned]

"12-83-RS-SOT"

December 1983 Roy Swinnerton Stoke-on-Trent

Makes sense?

It's a pity I didn't read this last week as I was with Brian on Saturday evening. When he was in Tunstall Wheelers in the 60's he rode Swinnerton frames as did Les West.

What size is the frame BTW?

 

[Garuf]

I could get my brother to take the frame into them I guess? That'd prove most of this unanimously I guess.

At 83 that makes the livery spurious, in 83 wasn't it called the Milk Race rather than tour of britain?

The frame's pretty small, probably around 54-55cm top tube.

 

[keithglos]

Many frames from post WW2 are/were silver brazed.
Is it possible to get a quote for repair, rather than total loss, which would mean the bits would not really be yours, although the insurers are unlikely to take the remains?

 

[Old Ned]

I could get my brother to take the frame into them I guess? That'd prove most of this unanimously I guess.

At 83 that makes the livery spurious, in 83 wasn't it called the Milk Race rather than tour of britain?

The frame's pretty small, probably around 54-55cm top tube.

It was still officially the Tour of Britain but sponsored by the Milk Marketing Board so named the 'Milk Race' because of this. The MMB sponsored it for many years from 1958 to 1993.

That size of frame could well have been used by one of the Swinnerton daughters, Margaret or Catherine? Some trawling through magazines of the era might draw some evidence. The racing sons, Mark and Paul are tall lads using at least 24" frames so more than likely not one of theirs.

 

[Woz]

Off-topic, ish:

One of the reasons I contributed to the thread, is that I'm from the Potteries area so have fond memories. My father raced with BR in the hey day and as a vet, and my god mother working in RS. I would prefer not to mention family names here publically of course (PM me if you have genuine interest).

My understanding is, yes there was "competion" but I have vague recolections that RS was the initial prominant builder, and specialised in track bikes due to the track at Newcastle. I had an ancient RS 531 track bike pass me down for my paper round, and boy I would like to have it now!

I may be wrong here (please bear in mind these are discussions from over 20 years ago), but I think that BR worked at RS initially. My understanding is that frame builders and sprayers varied at BR, and I'm reasonably sure Jason Rourke was one of the first in the country for 753, shortly after he completed his frame building apprentice craft.

I haven't visited Burslem for almost 20 years now, it's sad in a way since I went to the SOT tech college on Moorland Rd; I either spent most lunch breaks in the pub, or BR. Good times

 

[Garuf]

I'm a stokie myself as is all my family on both sides. I'm the one who's lost in Leeds everyone else is still in the area.

In terms of the rivalry I honestly couldn't tell you, I'm only 23 so don't know it historically... I do know that when I needed a wheel trued over the summer I went into Swinnertons and got told "go to Brian's he'll do a better job" so it's probably not that heated?

I suppose it could be one of the daughters frames easily enough, It's just the trio of names and frame material I need to un-spin to know what it is I had.

 

[Woz]

It's a great story and won't be easy to unravel...but stay focused on getting the cash from the insurance by hook or by crook and blow it all on a nice bike ;-)

 

[Lazarus]

I agree Woz, very interesting story starting to unravel, but that's this place all over, full of dark horse old gentlemen, who's words fall too infrequently for my mind (that's a compliment). When I came here, the amount of information made my head hurt, now I'm just taking the bits & pieces as they fall

Perhaps the reason why the new disposable generation don't really grasp the retro bike values historically is because what info there is is complex, 4th party, speculation, and not, as is often the case here, 1st hand "I was there" info. Just love reading about who was with whom when this & that race was on, or who built what for whom & why.

It seems to me that this smashed bike was "someones", but then again, back in the old days, "weren't all 531c/753 custom builds for those who could afford them ?". I guess ALL the decent builds out there still started life as top end bikes for chaps who raced 1 way or another ? Best of luck in your hunt for the "truth about the bike". I sure hope this thread get's to a decision Yours Laz.

 

[Garuf]

Well, they went to the financial trouble of using of using super record so it was clearly special to them.

I've sent my brother off with the frame to Brians/Roys to see what they say.
With any luck I'll know a bit more by the weekend.