Agency_Scum
Retrobike Rider
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has everyone lost the passion?
- Thread starter bkt
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conceptsails
Dirt Disciple
I think retros are for looking at or commuting and moderns are for riding. How many of us were disapointed having finished a stunner to realise that forks, gears and brakes have advanced for a reason and make modern bike a lot nicer to ride. certinly dont look as beautiful though!
MJN
Senior Retro Guru
hondamatic":tghllsw2 said:
Sorry man,even S-works were made in Asia(all exept the carbon lugged frames,I believe)from far longer ago than 99,dunno how they managed a 'made in the USA' tag,its usually 'assembled in the USA' or 'designed in the USA'.
Not that it really matters where mass produced frames are made anymore,Taiwanese welders are pretty decent nowadays.
OrangeRetro
Senior Retro Guru
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The guys who weld up frames in Taiwan are not exploited, they are probably get paid a very good wage relative to what people earn in Taiwan. As for the quality, those guys weld up soo many frames that you would expect it to be of an extremely high standard. so who cares where a bike frame is welded?
Another example. OT but still, is guitars. I would say that it really does matter where they are built. An American built Fender is built to a much higher standard than its Chinese counter part, mainly due to the qualtiy of materials that go into it. As for a bike frame.. 853 is 853, where ever it is welded together.
At the end of the day, all bike manufacturers are operating in a competitive market, and one of the price leaders is Specialized.... why because they produce better spec'd bikes at a cheaper price.. fact. So manufacture in Taiwan pays off. On the other hand Orange and Cannondale produce bikes built in there home countries which are slightly more expensive but still demonstrate the same level of technology and innovation. You make you choice and pay your money accordingly.
So why do bikes cost so much... BECAUSE people treat them as a F**king fashion accessory.. Oooo I have the latest trendy piece of crap, but i'll never ride it cause it'll get dirty :evil: .. bikes are popular and sell at high prices.. I wouldn't mind if people actually rode them.. (aimed at STW no-one here!! - search for threads on Ti 456's)
Anyhoo, I recently read that Orange are looking to move all manufacturing back to the UK, bar the G series.. So lets get patriotic and buy home grown heh..
Another example. OT but still, is guitars. I would say that it really does matter where they are built. An American built Fender is built to a much higher standard than its Chinese counter part, mainly due to the qualtiy of materials that go into it. As for a bike frame.. 853 is 853, where ever it is welded together.
At the end of the day, all bike manufacturers are operating in a competitive market, and one of the price leaders is Specialized.... why because they produce better spec'd bikes at a cheaper price.. fact. So manufacture in Taiwan pays off. On the other hand Orange and Cannondale produce bikes built in there home countries which are slightly more expensive but still demonstrate the same level of technology and innovation. You make you choice and pay your money accordingly.
So why do bikes cost so much... BECAUSE people treat them as a F**king fashion accessory.. Oooo I have the latest trendy piece of crap, but i'll never ride it cause it'll get dirty :evil: .. bikes are popular and sell at high prices.. I wouldn't mind if people actually rode them.. (aimed at STW no-one here!! - search for threads on Ti 456's)
Anyhoo, I recently read that Orange are looking to move all manufacturing back to the UK, bar the G series.. So lets get patriotic and buy home grown heh..
utahdog2003
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Agency_Scum":1xs0arot said:
MJN":1xs0arot said:
My 2002 Stumpjumper M4 was welded in California. Many of the 'Metal Matrix' M series frames, like my M4, and the early Duralcan frames, were made in the states
hondamatic
Dirt Disciple
I just checked the '99, and the sticker says, "Handmade in the United States", of course with a blowing stars and stripes print in the background.
I thought the sticker on my old Giant Reign was cute. It had "Designed in California" in big bold letters, a big US flag, and then "Made in Taiwan" at the bottom in small print.
So many nice bikes have come from overseas. Given a preference, I'd sooner buy domestic, but I keep finding good deals on Specialized bikes...
I thought the sticker on my old Giant Reign was cute. It had "Designed in California" in big bold letters, a big US flag, and then "Made in Taiwan" at the bottom in small print.
So many nice bikes have come from overseas. Given a preference, I'd sooner buy domestic, but I keep finding good deals on Specialized bikes...
Neil G
Old School Grand Master
OrangeRetro":10jvbnga said:The guys who weld up frames in Taiwan are not exploited, they are probably get paid a very good wage relative to what people earn in Taiwan. As for the quality, those guys weld up soo many frames that you would expect it to be of an extremely high standard. so who cares where a bike frame is welded?
Another example. OT but still, is guitars. I would say that it really does matter where they are built. An American built Fender is built to a much higher standard than its Chinese counter part, mainly due to the qualtiy of materials that go into it. As for a bike frame.. 853 is 853, where ever it is welded together.
At the end of the day, all bike manufacturers are operating in a competitive market, and one of the price leaders is Specialized.... why because they produce better spec'd bikes at a cheaper price.. fact. So manufacture in Taiwan pays off. On the other hand Orange and Cannondale produce bikes built in there home countries which are slightly more expensive but still demonstrate the same level of technology and innovation. You make you choice and pay your money accordingly.
So why do bikes cost so much... BECAUSE people treat them as a F**king fashion accessory.. Oooo I have the latest trendy piece of crap, but i'll never ride it cause it'll get dirty :evil: .. bikes are popular and sell at high prices.. I wouldn't mind if people actually rode them.. (aimed at STW no-one here!! - search for threads on Ti 456's)
Anyhoo, I recently read that Orange are looking to move all manufacturing back to the UK, bar the G series.. So lets get patriotic and buy home grown heh..
Totally agree
Bikes & parts have always been 'fashion accesssories' to some people. The market is continually upgrading/changing parts & bikes yearly to keep these folk continually plouging money into the industry.
hondamatic
Dirt Disciple
There probably is some maliciousness on the part of bike companies in trying to market Dual Suspension bikes. Many people already have a hardtail, so naturally they'd want to grow the market.
As far as quality goes, I bet the folks who make Specialized and Trek's frames are VERY concerned about yields because of the volumes and small margin. Most of these companies provide a healthy warranty to the customer anyways.
I can see how people find these trends soulless and not that special. On the other hand, features are available way more cheaply than before and (at least I think) they have a positive impact on riding. If you really want a steel hardtail, guys like DeKerf, Salsa, Brodie, Surly and others would be happy to sell you one.
As far as quality goes, I bet the folks who make Specialized and Trek's frames are VERY concerned about yields because of the volumes and small margin. Most of these companies provide a healthy warranty to the customer anyways.
I can see how people find these trends soulless and not that special. On the other hand, features are available way more cheaply than before and (at least I think) they have a positive impact on riding. If you really want a steel hardtail, guys like DeKerf, Salsa, Brodie, Surly and others would be happy to sell you one.
Passion? Still alive and well..
http://urbanvelo.org/nahbs-2009-day-1/#more-6617
The reason mountain bikes are the techno wonders that they now are is simple and it's always has been this way in this part of the world. What wins races on Sunday sells on Monday. There is no other form of transportation quite like a bicycle. You can walk into a shop and buy a bike exactly like the pros race with. I certainly cannot afford to walk into my neighborhood motorcycle or car dealership and buy a race 'ready' machine.
As an example Specialized does not build custom bikes for any of their racers regardless of level. I could buy a S-Works Tarmac like the bike used on the tour or S-Works Epic like the one used in the World Cross Country Championship.
Whether it's your cup of tea or mine really does not matter much. Technology will march on regardless. I live a hour away from the Rocky Mountains. Mountain biking is huge business here. People travel around the world to mountain bike here. Hundreds of locals race. Courses are challenging enough to warrant the high tech bikes. I have no doubt as to why these bikes exist. Personally I have a 88 Fisher Montare and a 94 Rocky Hammer Race, but that does not prevent me from being able to totally appreciatte how awesome new machinery is or just how beautiful some of the machines on display here are. Kind of like having my cake and eating it too.
I have no doubt that the people responsible for developing new bikes are just as passionatte and live and breathe bike just like we do. Some people see bikes as works of art some see them simply as tools.
http://urbanvelo.org/nahbs-2009-day-1/#more-6617
The reason mountain bikes are the techno wonders that they now are is simple and it's always has been this way in this part of the world. What wins races on Sunday sells on Monday. There is no other form of transportation quite like a bicycle. You can walk into a shop and buy a bike exactly like the pros race with. I certainly cannot afford to walk into my neighborhood motorcycle or car dealership and buy a race 'ready' machine.
As an example Specialized does not build custom bikes for any of their racers regardless of level. I could buy a S-Works Tarmac like the bike used on the tour or S-Works Epic like the one used in the World Cross Country Championship.
Whether it's your cup of tea or mine really does not matter much. Technology will march on regardless. I live a hour away from the Rocky Mountains. Mountain biking is huge business here. People travel around the world to mountain bike here. Hundreds of locals race. Courses are challenging enough to warrant the high tech bikes. I have no doubt as to why these bikes exist. Personally I have a 88 Fisher Montare and a 94 Rocky Hammer Race, but that does not prevent me from being able to totally appreciatte how awesome new machinery is or just how beautiful some of the machines on display here are. Kind of like having my cake and eating it too.
I have no doubt that the people responsible for developing new bikes are just as passionatte and live and breathe bike just like we do. Some people see bikes as works of art some see them simply as tools.
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