Grenfell Tower

[highlandsflyer]

If this move led to reductions in value I can see a claim coming on from the owners. It's all well and good helping one group in need, but why should another group be disadvantaged to do it?

These apartments were already allocated as social housing. There is no substantive argument for anyone to be concerned that actually using them as such would diminish prices. It is not as though this mix of housing is a new idea. Those who invested so heavily to purchase in this scheme ought to have examined carefully before they reached for their wallets if it was so important to live separately from those with rather smaller wallets.

 

[Bats]

Death toll gone up to 79 according to the police.

 

[KDM]

These apartments were already allocated as social housing. There is no substantive argument for anyone to be concerned that actually using them as such would diminish prices.

I think you are wrong here. If you go to a private estate and at one end there are dumped cars, kids toys on the lawn, a group of cannabis dealers all wearing hoodies whilst riding up and down the road illegally on motocross bikes, Mums shouting at their kids at volume 10, cars lowered within an inch of their life, bin rubbish all over the place and washing being dryed over the balcony railing and windows wide open whilst pumping out the latest Stormzy track played 27 times in a row, I can pretty much guaranty 2 things, you will either buy at the other end of the estate or you will seek a new estate. The rent prices on these things are so high, only people on housing benefit can afford them and not all council/housing association tenants are sweetness and light.

Absolutely this would effect house prices for these who have bought these new and once the estate has been going for a while, "problem areas" are very quickly known locally no matter whether they have a council door or an housing association door so would put many off buying there.

Those who invested so heavily to purchase in this scheme ought to have examined carefully before they reached for their wallets if it was so important to live separately from those with rather smaller wallets.

I agree to a point, If the buyer does not ask, "is any part of this estate going to be social housing and can you show me where?", then the developer is under no obligation to disclose it. You would hope the legal service paid for would pick it up however. It certainly would be one of the first questions I asked for any new purchase on a new estate.

It may not be comrade correct but if you've worked hard and continue to work hard so to try and improve your life standard so spend a lot of your hard earned on a house each month , then the last thing you want is the cast of shameless moved next door

 

[Bats]

I think you are wrong here. If you go to a private estate and at one end there are dumped cars, kids toys on the lawn, a group of cannabis dealers all wearing hoodies whilst riding up and down the road illegally on motocross bikes, Mums shouting at their kids at volume 10, cars lowered within an inch of their life, bin rubbish all over the place and washing being dryed over the balcony railing and windows wide open whilst pumping out the latest Stormzy track played 27 times in a row, I can pretty much guaranty 2 things, you will either buy at the other end of the estate or you will seek a new estate. The rent prices on these things are so high, only people on housing benefit can afford them and not all council/housing association tenants are sweetness and light.

Absolutely this would effect house prices for these who have bought these new and once the estate has been going for a while, "problem areas" are very quickly known locally no matter whether they have a council door or an housing association door so would put many off buying there.

 

[KDM]

What? reality offends over ideology?

 

[Bats]

What? reality offends over ideology?

Everything that I quoted there was nothing but ideology. You could sum it up as just going "council tenants are all scum". What you notably didn't write was any sort of evidence that'd be the case with these fire victims, you just have a nasty assumption off of your own prejudices.

Assumptions and prejudice don't define reality.

 

[KDM]

The blind leading the blind often hides what is really happening. My descriptions did not apply to all nor did it say so, however many will recognise those examples and in those cases very few of them will be by people who have bought their own places

Let me put this too you bats, just a theory, You have a million pounds to spend on a house and you want one estate, at one end there is the housing association end and the other the buying your own house end, what end would you buy in and why?

 

[ajm]

Re: Re:

Hate driven by misconception only harms yourself, mate. You could clear that up by visiting Cuba - you don't have to sneak in, Co-op travel sell holidays there - and see how nice it is.

Ah yes, Cuba - perhaps we've been too hasty, maybe that's totally different from every other repugnant Communist state in history... let's see what glowing report Human Rights Watch have produced on that particular idyll;

"The Cuban government continues to repress dissent and punish public criticism. It now relies less than in past years on long-term prison sentences to punish its critics, but short-term arbitrary arrests of human rights defenders, independent journalists, and others have increased dramatically in recent years. Other repressive tactics employed by the government include beatings, public shaming, and termination of employment."

Nope, sounds exactly like Practical Communism to me. Maybe a bit more gentle than the proper Soviet kind, a few million less deliberate deaths by starvation etc, but not exactly any rational person's ideal.

Our own system may not be perfect but it's a billion times better than that...

 

[Bats]

The blind leading the blind often hides what is really happening. My descriptions did not apply to all nor did it say so, however many will recognise those examples and in those cases very few of them will be by people who have bought their own places

Let me put this too you bats, just a theory, You have a million pounds to spend on a house and you want one estate, at one end there is the housing association end and the other the buying your own house end, what end would you buy in and why?

I grew up on an estate like you describe and you're missing something important.

My estate wasn't always like that. It was quite a nice area, until the pits closed, which meant that most of those living there ended up skint. Still nice people but they were short of cash so when stuff got broken it didn't get fixed.

Now at this point it's starting to look a bit tatty. We're talking the early 90s when people where I grew up still had the luxury of choice when it came to council housing. Most people came, saw it was tatty, and then chose somewhere else.

So we get a few empty houses boarded up. We're in a proper decline now. Council decides that since nobody chooses to move there anymore, they might as well move problem families in.

Now it's not so nice to live. The nice familes who'd been there start to leave. Council ships in more problem people.

Property developers are looking to buy land for a new estate at this point. They've got mates on the council. It's figured that the more the council estate declines, the cheaper it is for "redevelopment". So the police are told not to bother going in.

Eventually everyone gets an eviction notice. Property developers get the entire estate, boot everyone out, flatten all the houses. Build £450/month 1-bedroom flats that look like they're from 1950s Russia inside they're so small.

Now, that was my sinkhole estate and the reason behind it all was so they had an excuse to clear it away for expensive new development. So I can tell you two things I know for certain: Not every council estate is this way, and those who do this sort of malicious social engineering aren't going to do it to a brand new building full of millionaires.

As for what I'd buy with a million: I'm spending about £75k on a three bed semi, fitting a good alarm and forgetting about it. Rough is what I'm used to.

 

[Bats]

Re: Re:

Ah yes, Cuba - perhaps we've been too hasty, maybe that's totally different from every other repugnant Communist state in history... let's see what glowing report Human Rights Watch have produced on that particular idyll;

Normally if you want to cite someone on human rights you ask the UN or amnesty international, not an old cold war front organisation.

Fact remains, the human rights violations in Cuba happen in one place. Guantanamo bay.