Fratelli Hubs - Re chrome

[VeloFellow54]

Certainly makes me wonder about the connection between Mavic & AVA given the advertisement.
Clearly there were a number of French & Italian companies selling into the UK before WW2 and soon after. Despite the huge popularity of cycling here at that time, UK manufacturers appear to have been very slow to take on board the trends coming from the continent. TDF appeared to have driven development of lightweight bikes and components - and after Desgrange lifted the ban on gears, the development of the derailleur which we were slow to adopt (I think thatb it was a Frenchman who started Cyclo in the 30's). I am almost certain that no British rider co0mpeted in the TDF until the 50's. I may be wrong but can only think of Constrictor as a manufacturer of lightweight alloy rims (and tubs also - I have one of these which I suspect dates pre WW2). Were there any alloy stems being made here before the war ? I feel sure that someone out there will know, and perhaps post some information.

 

[bduc61]

Certainly makes me wonder about the connection between Mavic & AVA given the advertisement.
Clearly there were a number of French & Italian companies selling into the UK before WW2 and soon after. Despite the huge popularity of cycling here at that time, UK manufacturers appear to have been very slow to take on board the trends coming from the continent. TDF appeared to have driven development of lightweight bikes and components - and after Desgrange lifted the ban on gears, the development of the derailleur which we were slow to adopt (I think thatb it was a Frenchman who started Cyclo in the 30's). I am almost certain that no British rider co0mpeted in the TDF until the 50's. I may be wrong but can only think of Constrictor as a manufacturer of lightweight alloy rims (and tubs also - I have one of these which I suspect dates pre WW2). Were there any alloy stems being made here before the war ? I feel sure that someone out there will know, and perhaps post some information.

Well I am going to slightly contradict you on your specific sentence " TDF appeared to have driven development of lightweight bikes and components "

Frank Berto "The dancing chain" as well as my little french experience clearly depicts 2 different bicyle segments in France.
The touring or randonneuse one and the racing one.
French derailleurs have actually been developed very early on ( beginning of the 1900's till 1930's ) and one of the promoter and influential tester was Velocio ( nickname) who started the review "Le cycliste" before 1900 if I remember correctly.

The racing scene was clearly not the major progress arena ( and Desgranges who forbid the derailleur until 1936 on the tdf was undoubtfully one of the reason of this)

It was the randonneuse one and the concours de machines organized from 1934 with the advent of aluminium parts which were IMHO the two factors explaining the french progress and advance over other countries.

The "conges payes" in 1936 ( paid vacation) was the third and important factor , creating a demand which helped the offer to generate

In real life, the touring bicycle were the most advanced ones - and if you think about it , the high end "french constructor" needed some wealthy customers who could support their business and buy their much more expensive machines. Racing would have been a bit harsch on the "doctors" or enginneers who were probably the main customers especially when you look at the racing machines with the two front chainrings being very close at quite often 52/49.
I actually do not understand how the racers were able to cope with the french "cols" in the Alpes or Pyrenees !

I still need to study the pricing structure and relate it to the wage ladder :idea: to better assess the market "offer"

See here my comments about concours de machines on page 3

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=355445&start=20

I'll try to ad perod ads about this specific french development

 

[VeloFellow54]

I stand corrected. I still feel that TDF and other Continental events were instrumental in the drive to produce ever lighter equipment. I would agree that the French were largely responsible for the development of the derailleur, although much later (according to Berto) the parallelogram design was originally by an Italian (if memory serves - albeit not Campagnolo).
The stem illustrated could indeed be from the 40's. It is very similar to Pivo stems that I have seen on machines from the late 40's / early 50's. The earlier AVA stem designs can be seen in the Fonteyn catalogues from the late 30's (see V C C Library). When I am home again in daylight I will take some pictures of those that I have and post them along with some hubs that give an excellent comparison between FB and Campagnolo Gran Sport.
As to those intrepid riders : I have read the McGann's book on the TDF and marvel at how they did it !

 

[bduc61]

Re:

Here are a few ads from 1936,1937 and 1938 which are from
La Société du Duralumin which was trying to promote the use of Duralumin in the cycle industry.

Not sure yet if it was a sort of industry effort or a specific manufacturer as some parts bear the name of Societe du Duralumin :?: Will investigate further

Last one is pretty amusing as the sketches are from a famous french poster artist DUBOUT

 

[VeloFellow54]

Re:

Picture shows Campagnolo Gran Sport HF from about 1957 (above) and Fratelli Brivio HF from 1950 (below). Both split ready to be re chromed. Suggests to me that the Campy hub was made by FB.

 

[bduc61]

Re:

no suggestion to me its a certainty :mrgreen:

the only unknown is until when did they subcontract to Campa :?:

Never found any info on this

Campa surely would not admit easily it in the open :idea:

 

[VeloFellow54]

I read somewhere that all Campag hubs were made by FB until about 1958. However, the LF rear hubs are unlike FB and what of Campag 1006 hubs - all steel - who made them.
Interestingly (as far as I know), FB did not offer hubs with their own QR skewers but you could but their hubs with Campag skewers - unlike Gnutti who presumably had to pay to h

 

[Frizzaldo]

Re:

How did the re chrome work out on these?

 

[VeloFellow54]

The parts are still with the metal finishers. It seems to be normal to have to wait for these people to get the job done. I doubt that I will see them until end February. The hubs are among the third batch of parts that are have handed over for plating. I am certain that the results will be excellent though - this based on parts that have been done already. It really is a question of how bad the corrosion is and whether there is engraving on the parts to be plated that is to be retained. The FB barrels have good deep engraving, whereas Bayliss and Airlite hubs have engraving that is hard to see even on new hubs and this will be lost in the metal finishing process. As soon as the parts are back I will post photos before and after re-assembly.

 

[Frizzaldo]

Re:

good tuff, look forward to seeing them.