Fratelli Hubs - Re chrome

[Losgaintir]

Re: Flange removal

Keith and Steve,
Very curious why the FB flanges are so difficult to remove, whilst the Airlites appear so much easier ????
Colin

 

[stevevw]

They would re chrome quite nicely in my opinion. Look late 40's to early 50's to me and identical to Gnutti - as are others that I have seen. Which makes me wonder.....it was not unknown for manufacturers to badge for others - Magistroni certainly did !
If you decide to sell them I may well be interested (I have a pile of parts going for plating very soon)
Steve

Who do you get to do your plating?

 

[keithglos]

Re:

The Airlite hubs often had flanges that would move, it didn't matter, the spokes held them in place.
Never saw a FB/Campagnolo solid centre huib with a loose flange. I suspect that if you could machine off the inside edge of the flange where it meets the steel centre it would then be removable, never needed to try this.

These hubs were drilled for 15G spokes (1.8mm) to fit tightly, alternate countersink to support the bend in the spoke. We didn't use tree trunks in those days, normally 15/17G.

Keith

Note Fratelli Brivio = Brivio Brothers

 

[VeloFellow54]

Re:

By way of an update :
I have been able to get the flanges removed from both F B hubs (along with an early Campagnolo and an early Gnutti) with little difficulty courtesy of Mick Madgett. I will have the barrels re chromed (retaining as much of the engraving as possible and without machining the flanges) and then with luck I will be able to get them re assembled (bearing in mind the spoke holes must be offset)
See picture of hubs in pieces.
I will post again to confirm the end result which (hopefully) will be a success

 

[VeloFellow54]

By way of an update concerning re plating of hub barrels, I have recently acquired a number of hubs with steel barrels / alloy flanges to attempt re-plating of the barrels. Campagnolo Gran Sport - low and high flange, Fratelli Brivio - again both LF & HF (identical to Campagnolo since they made the Campy ones !), Gnutti LF, BH Airlites HF, Bayliss Continentals. All have been successfully taken apart in order to get the barrels plated. I have asked the plater to attempt to retain as much of the original barrel engraving as possible. On the BH and Bayliss barrels I suspect it will be lost (even new ones c an be very faint) on the others it should be OK. The real test comes when we need to re-assemble. Will the flanges still have the correct tolerance ? Will we be able to align the spoke holes offset correctly ? It will be interesting to see. I will post again when I have some finished, but am already of the opinion that just about any hub requiring this can be salvaged.

 

[bduc61]

By way of an update concerning re plating of hub barrels, I have recently acquired a number of hubs with steel barrels / alloy flanges to attempt re-plating of the barrels. Campagnolo Gran Sport - low and high flange, Fratelli Brivio - again both LF & HF (identical to Campagnolo since they made the Campy ones !), Gnutti LF, BH Airlites HF, Bayliss Continentals. All have been successfully taken apart in order to get the barrels plated. I have asked the plater to attempt to retain as much of the original barrel engraving as possible. On the BH and Bayliss barrels I suspect it will be lost (even new ones c an be very faint) on the others it should be OK. The real test comes when we need to re-assemble. Will the flanges still have the correct tolerance ? Will we be able to align the spoke holes offset correctly ? It will be interesting to see. I will post again when I have some finished, but am already of the opinion that just about any hub requiring this can be salvaged.

Interesting
I really thought it was not really possible for the FB hubs.
By sheer curiosity, how was this done ? I thought these bodies and flanges were sort of "pressed together" so disassembly would be by sheer "force" and hence prone to damage the alu flanges ?

and how are you going to reassemble this :?: :idea:
pressing them together again ?

by the way, I am less demanding than you are and rebuilded a front wheel for a 1950 Hurtu , even if the body chrome was mostly gone
Now looking for a 4 speed rear high flange FB :idea: ( even with dead chrome :facepalm: )
If you have an unneeded spare one ? don't hesitate to PM me

 

[VeloFellow54]

Re: FB Hubs - Re Chrome

Firstly - the vintage bug is a lot of fun - providing you have deep pockets !
Splitting the flanges from the barrels is quite easy - simple case of reversing the process that put them together. Heat the flange with a blow lamp then drift the flange off with a hammer (rawhide type is best - you do not want to damage the alloy). Aluminium has a far higher expansion coefficient than steel so it loosens readily. Reverse requires heating the flange and drifting it back on . Hard part is alignment as the spoke holes must offset exactly 50%. I would add that I do not do this. Mick Madgett (Madgett's / Diss) has made a jig for this very purpose and has kindly done a few for me (including FB) at a reasonable cost. Local metal finisher will handle the plating (must not reduce the flange dia. after stripping existing chrome though. As previous - when I have some done I will post some before and after photos.

 

[VeloFellow54]

Further update. I have now had a range of hubs separated ready for the barrels to be plated. These include : BH low and high flange Airlites, Bayliss Wiley Continentals, Gnutti, Campagnolo Gran Sport and F B. After removal, there is clear evidence on some that something was put on the flange before being pressed in (along the lines of Loctite ?). Mick Madgett recommends using a smear of something like this when re-assembling them. More to to follow if ever the metal finishers get my plating done !

 

[Cefnbikie]

A very interesting topic. I have a pair of Campag Gran Sport hubs which I hope to build into wheels soon. The chrome is a bit rusted in places, and I am going to leave them as they are. But is very interesting to read of the re-chroming project.

 

[VeloFellow54]

Some interesting background on Brivio Brothers hubs : F B hubs were originally imported into the UK (the low flange version as per my earlier photos) before WW2. In 1938 they were listed at 21/- (one guinea) per pair. Very expensive.
Tabucchi in London marketed them as 'Ambra Superga' (patent) hubs. The patent (as far as I know) was because these were the first hubs which had aluminium flanges pressed (they describe this as shrinking !) onto steel barrels. Tabucchi claimed that these were the 'lightest hubs in the world' - this may even have been true ! This also may explain why Campagnolo hubs were made by F B up to around 1958 - perhaps the patent expired at this time ? Tabucchi were also offering the 'new' quick release hubs (1939). These hubs have the earliest Campagnolo skewers illustrated in hubs that clearly show F B on the barrels. Priced at 36/- per pair they were extremely expensive also - which may explain their rarity today.
They also offered an all steel version hub set (also F B) named 'Ambra Secundus' although I have never seen these - and being priced at 16/6 for low flange steel hubs, they would have been expensive at that time. Soon I shall post pictures of F B high flange hubs and Campagnolo Gran Sport high flange hubs - all in pieces - which makes for an interesting comparison.