Frame failure experiences

[novocaine]

The tales in the late 90s of Russian ti being slightly radioactive?
Probably apocryphal.
The fuel pipe alloy by really being suitable for bicycle frames?
Probably true.

Everything in the world is slightly radioactive after August 1945. Got worse in 1986.
Low background steel, normally pulled of shipwrecks is used for particle detectors.

 

[Canuk]

My mate had an nice electric blue anodised Alan which came with the usual hairline crack at the headtube from someone forcing in a fixed cup. Full Campagnolo Super Record, he bought it from an estate of a well known cyclist who's wife was knocking out all his cherished bikes for cheap. This was about 30 years ago. The guy at our LBS saw it, sucked his teeth and said 'oh you want to bin that, it'll kill you'... My mate was like 'Yeah grandad, I'll be careful'.

Like the 979 it's still going strong, still got the same headset in it, the crack is still cracking along! Pretty thick tubes on the Alan...

The guy from the LBS is well dead tho! Life will kill you, as will crispy bacon and malt whisky, you might as well live dangerously while you can

 

[Canuk]

This is quite a common complaint on Alan Super Record frames, again, absolutely no problem riding it. Just one of dem tings you learn to forget about!

 

[Woz]

I did hear an apocryphal story once from a well known importer that they got batch of Russian Ti frames on the cheap because they'd been 'recycled' from a load of Mig 31's which had recently been decommissioned. This was in the early 90's and they were putting them out to the public at 300 quid, quite the bargain. I managed to see one in the metal, and it looked quite rough, but it was LIGHT! I wasn't tempted tho. Never heard anything but good reports about them afterwards. The Mig 31 was the fastest Russian interceptor jet at 3000km/h (1900mph) and was limited to 5G's at top speed.

I reckon if they know how to put a jet together that can rattle along like that, a bike frame should be a doddle....

Russian Red was the brand name.

A lot of BS marketing and sounded cool at the time of the cold war dissipating. Cashing in from a world outside now accessible, with cheap labour and knowledge is actually closer to the truth. When an ingot is made and goes off to tube manufacture, then to bike manufacture traceability especially back then is well and truly lost. I'm not even sure technically if any titanium recycling went on back then either.

Company appears to still be going, but all a bit questionable these days with sanctions and what not.
https://www.rapid-titan.ru/aboutus_en.htm

Our own resident @Imlach owns a Kocmo via the German design team; clearly mentioned in the blurb above. I've been looking out for a Kocmo CX for too long to remember now.

 

[Canuk]

Had two 501 frames develop a crack in the head tube ? Luckily the Carlton Kermess was under guarantee and the shop gave me a 531 Raleigh frame in exchange.

I don't know what happened to Carlton, I suppose when Raleigh got them they knocked the QC on the head. I had a nice 12 speed 531, rusted to buggery in under two years, and then a nice brazing gap at the head tube lug. And to think they were probably the best frames being made in Britain in the era. Raleigh... Bah humbug!

 

[Canuk]

Rapid Titan (Russia)

Word for word from the actual website, would you buy a Ti brake bolt off these guys....!

'In 2004 we made a separate devision for a circus accessories production, which is very actual nowdays'.

Very nice! How much you sell 501 denims? I give you Titanic frame, and many plenty chickens. Good deals for you!

 

[Woz]

Rapid Titan (Russia)

Word for word from the actual website, would you buy a Ti brake bolt off these guys....!

'In 2004 we made a separate devision for a circus accessories production, which is very actual nowdays'.

Very nice! How much you sell 501 denims? I give you Titanic frame, and many plenty chickens. Good deals for you!

Exactly like going to Estonia in the early 1990s - buy a Soviet army hat for $500 USD from a babushka. Very cheap. Very nice on you Sir.

In honesty and jokes aside, while it all looks and seems backward, the pedigree is not to be sniffed at, especially if there is QC involvement from the errmmm "outside" / principal vendor to the end customer.

 

[Woz]

The fuel pipe alloy by really being suitable for bicycle frames?
Probably true.

Almost on the nail ..... but no milk and cookies for you and sleep easy. Obligation to go to the Inn and buy a round of harder stuff.

Posted many many times, just because it is sacred from the horses mouth themselves with information that cuts through a lot of the BS as we know the bicycle industry loves to dish out. From an old Sandvik website. Now if you think for a minute Sandvik being Swedish that (had) Russia as a long trading partner for semi-raw materials who produce the largest quantities of raw Ti in the world, it sort of ends dead a few myths too. The Sandvik empire is legendary just like the SKF empire and based on very similar business ethos.

 

[greencat]

First up, very surprised about a 4T failing, but weren't they more in the lightweight department and like you mention pulling a trailer. It would perhaps be like putting one of those child seats that clamp on the seat-tube on a thin walled frame?

There's a few things going on, but yes when Ti fails you feel very let down. Owners who buy from new and a failure occurs outside the warranty must be utterly miffed - in part due to the high initial expense, the myths like you say around Ti, and then to add insult to injury the availability and cost of any repair if possible.

Now what I don't believe is that "a significant number" fail. I would be fairly certain the numbers are comparatively low. What tends to happen is when they do fail they will get splashed around the web in "shock" "horror" "didn't expect that". The umpteen cracked steel or AL frames mostly get dumped with little press or fuss (of course a few exceptions).

On the MTB side there was a period in the early / mid-90s of practically everyone needing to have a top model race bike in Ti flavour in their catalogues; Wheeler, KHS, Mongoose, Parkpre, Diamond Back, Sunn, Orange, Lapierre, Gazelle, Kona, Raleigh, Crescent, etc. etc. etc. Some got it right, some got it wrong. Have in mind too many more budget Ti frames were produced overseas in Asia or former Eastern Soviet block. I'm not saying that means they are all bad, far from it. The ones that have survived up till now will probably survive in the future with some respect.

It is fairly rare to read about say a Dean or similar produced by Sandvik USA failing. Same with Lynskey, Serrota and Morati.

Probably worth saying the trailer was attached to bunch of steel and aluminium frames without incident...(and the 4T failed after about 2 years of ownership, and pulling a trailer no more than a dozen times - again don't know for sure that was what caused it, but perhaps - and it never pulled a trailer again after the first weld, and then failed again elsewhere afterwards).

My guess is there are lot fewer titanium frames out there. Maybe less than a few % of overall sales? I also suspect most are not ridden as daily drivers either. Unless one of us can provide data on relative % of frame types failing it's hard to say. Outside of crashes, frame failures are rare for any material.

Worth saying, I did also have a Sunn Morati which came to me with a failed v-brake fixing (the area where the spring locates weld had failed - and I had that done too).

 

[bikeworkshop]

I've definitely seen more broken ti than I should have, and I've examined hundreds of broken frames.

As always, failure of the cheaper models is less surprising.

3 of my most used bikes are titanium though
(owned 20/30 years, well used)
and although i'd like them to last forever
(or my demise whichever is sooner)
I don't fool myself that
"Failure is not an option"

of course people might pay the premium for ti because they are going to get used hard, so there's always an element of self- selection