Frame failure experiences

[7Speed]

Had two go on me - one was a third hand kids bike that had just seen too much abuse - the steel frame went just back from the head tube welds with both top and down tubes failing completely with the frame held together by the rear brake cable. Was a Raleigh if I remember right and failed after a clumsy curb hop. Second was a carbon frame but noticed the linear cracking around one side of the seat cluster before it failed - think this was the result of some high load stress during back of truck transport from the end of a sportive. racks and racks of bikes in the lorry - think mine ended up load bearing but might just be coincidence. Trek Emonda SL. Trek sorted me out with a replacement.

 

[Woz]

Good topic.

I think when we are taking about failures, there are a few categories:

General thrashing / abuse even / crash damage / race wear.
- things will fail or get banged out of alignment pretty quick and pretty much regardless of material. I think here we are generally very over optimistic about the longevity of lightweight race day frames. A gas pipe HiTen tank would probably hold up better but the riding enjoyment close to nill. Titanium was in the most part advertised as a dream material and will last forever - some failures on early Ti road bikes are truly shocking like the downtube literally ripping apart.

EDIT: Merlin, but seem the same on Litespeeds too.




Riding within the scope and expected lifetime of the product.
- nothing is really eternal, but something looked after should in the most part exceed the warranty period. There could be surprise manufacturing faults lurking, but overall I think most framesets will have a very reasonable time span. It can be very surprising to see even pre-war bikes doing faithful service. I'm always impressed too with heavyweight tourers that get tonnes of miles on them and get moved and knocked around. I'm totally put off with carbon in this area and feel it needs too much pampering. Practically every carbon seat-post and handlebar I acquired from strip and flip got cut up and binned. I cringe looking at how some people put these bikes on workstands or car roof racks.

Poor storage / natural decay.
- like mentioned, both seasonal transitions and even day / night extreme transitions can be a nightmare. I think it's also going to get worse. I'm struggling with this perhaps like a few people. Titanium is by far the clear winner in this department. Carbon in theory should do well but the moment there is an alloy sleave or rivnut or something it can corrode.

 

[novocaine]

Good topic.

I think when we are taking about failures, there are a few categories:

General thrashing / abuse even / crash damage / race wear.
- things will fail or get banged out of alignment pretty quick and pretty much regardless of material. I think here we are generally very over optimistic about the longevity of lightweight race day frames. A gas pipe HiTen tank would probably hold up better but the riding enjoyment close to nill. Titanium was in the most part advertised as a dream material and will last forever - some failures on early Ti road bikes are truly shocking like the downtube literally ripping apart.

Riding within the scope and expected lifetime of the product.
- nothing is really eternal, but something looked after should in the most part exceed the warranty period. There could be surprise manufacturing faults lurking, but overall I think most framesets will have a very reasonable time span. It can be very surprising to see even pre-war bikes doing faithful service. I'm always impressed too with heavyweight tourers that get tonnes of miles on them and get moved and knocked around. I'm totally put off with carbon in this area and feel it needs too much pampering. Practically every carbon seat-post and handlebar I acquired from strip and flip got cut up and binned. I cringe looking at how some people put these bikes on workstands or car roof racks.

Poor storage / natural decay.
- like mentioned, both seasonal transitions and even day / night extreme transitions can be a nightmare. I think it's also going to get worse. I'm struggling with this perhaps like a few people. Titanium is by far the clear winner in this department. Carbon in theory should do well but the moment there is an alloy sleave or rivnut or something it can corrode.

I stripped and transferred the components on a friend's Moots Titanium that the seattube had split open like a pea pod. he may or may not have been over it's "weight limit".

Agree that a well cared for anything should last quiet happily for a prolonged period, but modern, skinny wall tubing may reduce that period considerable.

 

[bikeworkshop]

Race components are built for light weight not longevity.
I remember a customer with ultegra rimbrake wheels, disappointed they'd worn out in a year.

"how far have you ridden" i asked.
About 10,000 miles he replied

 

[hamster]

@Woz that Ti frame is a great example of being designed with no consideration of stress raisers and cracks. This was written down in paralysing detail by Tony Oliver in his Touring Bikes book in the 1980s. Those gear bosses have sharp corners - no wonder cracking starts.

What surprises me perhaps more: how durable brazed 531 frames and mass-produced 90s steel MTBs have turned out to be. Even late 90s aluminium frames have generally lasted, even though they have finite fatigue lives. I'm still happily riding my Kona Kaboom frame as it approaches its 25th birthday.

 

[Woz]

I stripped and transferred the components on a friend's Moots Titanium that the seattube had split open like a pea pod. he may or may not have been over it's "weight limit".

Agree that a well cared for anything should last quiet happily for a prolonged period, but modern, skinny wall tubing may reduce that period considerable.

Some of the failures are really surprising. My fathers race day 753 frame cracked similar like that - big long split in the seat-tube. It lasted much longer than the "three seasons maximum" the frame builder said.

The only failures I've had was a cracked Ti frame (poor design, already had a repair, and cracked again) and gradual unbonding of a AL / Cro-Mo frame. Managed to sell all AL and Carbon while they were in good condition before the inevitable. For steel I'm no longer making big investments - when they've gone they've gone. Luckily there are plenty people out there who are motivated to do restorations and re-sprays.

 

[Woz]

@Woz that Ti frame is a great example of being designed with no consideration of stress raisers and cracks. This was written down in paralysing detail by Tony Oliver in his Touring Bikes book in the 1980s. Those gear bosses have sharp corners - no wonder cracking starts.

What surprises me perhaps more: how durable brazed 531 frames and mass-produced 90s steel MTBs have turned out to be. Even late 90s aluminium frames have generally lasted, even though they have finite fatigue lives. I'm still happily riding my Kona Kaboom frame as it approaches its 25th birthday.

Agree. I also think the tubes are butted and the transition is more-or-less around that point. A good Ti or steel or alloy frame should be simple and well made to last. Here's another daft design. I find it annoying that this kind of stuff and things like hydro-formed kinked down-tubes, tapered steerers and internal headsets only really makes sense for big bad bulky carbon.

 

[Once A Hero]

I only knowingly broke one frame, my Muddy Fox Adventurer.
It developed a crack that ran about 50% around the top tube, about an inch from the headtube.
I believe it happened when I was out riding on frozen ground one winter.
I’d forgotten about it until this thread came up, but it was replaced under warranty
This isn’t the one that broke or it’s replacement, but is the one I have in my collection.

 

[bikeworkshop]

What surprises me perhaps more: how durable brazed 531 frames and mass-produced 90s steel MTBs have turned out to be.

The previous generation expected their stuff to last, because they couldn't afford to buy it again, and lived in a culture and economy where "repair" was preferable to "replacement".

Cheap bikes worked, and you were still using your quality touring frame 25 years later

Disposable culture, creeping in since the 80s, has brought us disposable bikes, especially at the top and bottom end of the market.

 

[bikeworkshop]

Agree. I also think the tubes are butted and the transition is more-or-less around that point. A good Ti or steel or alloy frame should be simple and well made to last. Here's another daft design. I find it annoying that this kind of stuff and things like hydro-formed kinked down-tubes, tapered steerers and internal headsets only really makes sense for big bad bulky carbon.

View attachment 887752

Ti is awful with stress risers, in part because of the flexibility designed in to the frame.
Failures like this are caused by people who don't actually know (or understand) what they are doing designing frames.
The brand is desperate to hit a new market.