For those who know how to braze

[Stretch79]

F-Gas course for me and it was a lot simpler than initially thought.

 

[danson67]

I take it #0 and #1 tips are the sizes, and it's just general gas torch tips?

Yes, that's the numbering system for the bore of the gas nozzle.
Almost inevitably, it's the usual confusing minefield with each manufacturer having a different system, and no international standard
For brazing tips and torches, look for what is usually referred to as welding kit (as opposed to cutting).



So much of the kit out there is for heavy duty industrial work, cutting girders, welding digger buckets, salvaging oil tankers etc.....or at the other end, soldering brass pipework, jewellery and glass working. Bike frames seem to fall somewhere in the middle.
I'd advise getting an 'aircraft' or 'lightweight' torch with a small range of the manufacturer's smaller 'gas welding' nozzles.

Personally, I'm mostly TIG really, but still need to braze with brass or silver occasionally.
I run Oxy-Acetylene with a Harris AW 15-5 torch for braze-ons and fillet work (Top, #00-2 tips), and a slightly bigger Meco Midget torch for lugs and big stuff (Bottom, #2-4 tips). Thankfully these two have a roughly compatible numbering system, which helps.
Both are fully capable of both types of work...it's just easier to have them set up and ready, switching torches rather than fiddling with the tips.



I get my welding & brazing parts supplies mostly from WeldingDirect/Nozalls, who are also great for some of the more unusual stuff like the low pressure oxygen regulators that @Suprachrgd82 mentioned.

Oxy-propane tips are uncommon, so a little pricier than O/A tips, but with care tips don't really wear out once you've got them.
There are some builders (mostly those in New York apartments with touchy landlords) who do away with the oxygen bottles entirely and use an oxygen concentrator. These turn up on ebay pretty cheap, usually Devilbiss or Invacare brand. They're are made for people with respiratory problems and do not store oxygen at all, but catalyse it out of the atmosphere. It's not as pure as bottled gas, but fine for brazing. Just run a basic flow control tap, no need for high pressure regulators. There's a good thread by Doug Fattic over at Velocipedesalon which goes into depth on this and Oxy-propane in general.

I'll get a decent look at my stuff...might be able to put together a kit to lend, or buy at a good price, if you're looking to go down the brazing route.

All the best,

 

[CROB]

setup costs for brazing are about the same.

if you want to make a frame with lugs learn to braze, if you want to make a bike in more modern guises, learn to tig.

personally, I'd go with TIG. the entry price maybe high, but the ongoing prices are much lower (cost of tungsten isn't terrible and argon can be had at a reasonable price).

one day I'll get my own TIG set here, but for now I'm stuck with MIG and arc, neither of which is going to build me a bike frame.

Yeah fair enough, probably wouldn't want to cheap out anyway!

 

[CROB]

Yes, that's the numbering system for the bore of the gas nozzle.
Almost inevitably, it's the usual confusing minefield with each manufacturer having a different system, and no international standard
For brazing tips and torches, look for what is usually referred to as welding kit (as opposed to cutting).

View attachment 871028

So much of the kit out there is for heavy duty industrial work, cutting girders, welding digger buckets, salvaging oil tankers etc.....or at the other end, soldering brass pipework, jewellery and glass working. Bike frames seem to fall somewhere in the middle.
I'd advise getting an 'aircraft' or 'lightweight' torch with a small range of the manufacturer's smaller 'gas welding' nozzles.

Personally, I'm mostly TIG really, but still need to braze with brass or silver occasionally.
I run Oxy-Acetylene with a Harris AW 15-5 torch for braze-ons and fillet work (Top, #00-2 tips), and a slightly bigger Meco Midget torch for lugs and big stuff (Bottom, #2-4 tips). Thankfully these two have a roughly compatible numbering system, which helps.
Both are fully capable of both types of work...it's just easier to have them set up and ready, switching torches rather than fiddling with the tips.

View attachment 871039

I get my welding & brazing parts supplies mostly from WeldingDirect/Nozalls, who are also great for some of the more unusual stuff like the low pressure oxygen regulators that @Suprachrgd82 mentioned.

Oxy-propane tips are uncommon, so a little pricier than O/A tips, but with care tips don't really wear out once you've got them.
There are some builders (mostly those in New York apartments with touchy landlords) who do away with the oxygen bottles entirely and use an oxygen concentrator. These turn up on ebay pretty cheap, usually Devilbiss or Invacare brand. They're are made for people with respiratory problems and do not store oxygen at all, but catalyse it out of the atmosphere. It's not as pure as bottled gas, but fine for brazing. Just run a basic flow control tap, no need for high pressure regulators. There's a good thread by Doug Fattic over at Velocipedesalon which goes into depth on this and Oxy-propane in general.

I'll get a decent look at my stuff...might be able to put together a kit to lend, or buy at a good price, if you're looking to go down the brazing route.

All the best,

Thanks so much for all that info!

As you say it can be hard to find a consistent answer to any of these questions, but I feel like I'm getting a good picture now of what the "right" equipment is. hadn't realised how much potential there was for error, especially since the target heat levels for bike frames are kind of niche as you say.
The oxygen concentrator seems like a good long term investment, I imagine after a while it would pay for itself.

Can't imagine why a landlord would be bothered by hot work taking place in their apartments though!

But yeah if you do have a look and decide you want to move some stuff on (even temporarily) give me a shout, I'd certainly be interested.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[bikeworkshop]

I think if you want to store flammable gas and oxygen you definitely need to have somewhere away from a dwelling.
A minor leak of either turns everyday events into a catastrophe.

It would be worth doing a gas welding course because of the safety instructions, and as @Aech mentioned, welding and brazing have massive similarities in terms of cleanliness, handling the heat, and introducing the filler material.

You'd also get an idea of whether it was your calling.

You might turn out to be one of those guys whose house is festooned with humorous owl sculptures made of rusty junk

 

[Aech]

personally, I'd go with TIG. the entry price maybe high, but the ongoing prices are much lower (cost of tungsten isn't terrible and argon can be had at a reasonable price).

one day I'll get my own TIG set here, but for now I'm stuck with MIG and arc, neither of which is going to build me a bike frame.

I don't think TIG is that expensive, as long as you don't want to weld aluminium then a DC set with HF start is all you need, you can pick up a decent brand second hand for £200. On top of that you'll need filler rods, tungstens, bottle of argon gas, TIG gauntlets and a face mask.

You only have one set of eyes so a decent mask is important, so if you want to go cheap here get a old fashioned non-darkening type for £30 to £40 and just nod your head to drop it down when your ready to weld. Honestly the £50 auto-darkening types are a waste of money and soon stop working. I've had several quality brands over the decades and currently use a Speedglas but they are £300 to £400.

Ideally you'll have a bench grinder with a wheel on it you ONLY EVER use for sharpening your tungstens to avoid contaminating the tungsten.

Oh yeah, don't paint your garage walls white and then weld there as the UV and IR light will bounce off them and cook the back of your neck and ears. When I've had to weld in an environment like that some factor 50 suncream is essential.

I'd love an AC set I so I can weld Ally but they are £1500 to £2000 for anything half decent, I keep looking and hoping....

@novocaine sure you could build a bike frame with MIG or ARC, it might have to be on the heavy side though...

 

[bikeworkshop]

You could build your own Raleigh Mustang!

 

[novocaine]

I don't think TIG is that expensive, as long as you don't want to weld aluminium then a DC set with HF start is all you need, you can pick up a decent brand second hand for £200. On top of that you'll need filler rods, tungstens, bottle of argon gas, TIG gauntlets and a face mask.

You only have one set of eyes so a decent mask is important, so if you want to go cheap here get a old fashioned non-darkening type for £30 to £40 and just nod your head to drop it down when your ready to weld. Honestly the £50 auto-darkening types are a waste of money and soon stop working. I've had several quality brands over the decades and currently use a Speedglas but they are £300 to £400.

Ideally you'll have a bench grinder with a wheel on it you ONLY EVER use for sharpening your tungstens to avoid contaminating the tungsten.

Oh yeah, don't paint your garage walls white and then weld there as the UV and IR light will bounce off them and cook the back of your neck and ears. When I've had to weld in an environment like that some factor 50 suncream is essential.

I'd love an AC set I so I can weld Ally but they are £1500 to £2000 for anything half decent, I keep looking and hoping....

@novocaine sure you could build a bike frame with MIG or ARC, it might have to be on the heavy side though...

If I strayed into tig it wouldn't be cheap.

This mongral was mig welded. Nor sure it fits in the normal bike category though.

 

[bikeworkshop]

If I strayed into tig it wouldn't be cheap.

This mongral was mig welded. Nor sure it fits in the normal bike category though.

View attachment 871514

It's Retro, it's Road, it's Classic,
Just not all at the same time

 

[CROB]

I think if you want to store flammable gas and oxygen you definitely need to have somewhere away from a dwelling.
A minor leak of either turns everyday events into a catastrophe.

It would be worth doing a gas welding course because of the safety instructions, and as @Aech mentioned, welding and brazing have massive similarities in terms of cleanliness, handling the heat, and introducing the filler material.

You'd also get an idea of whether it was your calling.

You might turn out to be one of those guys whose house is festooned with humorous owl sculptures made of rusty junk

That's the dream isn't it?!

But you're probably right.
Don't want to be the guy responsible for blowing up the neighbours flats.