Fixing a Victorian

[Woz]

A (much) shorter spoke with a longer nipple could be an option if you are struggling finding a similar spoke size.

 

[Nabeaquam]

A (much) shorter spoke with a longer nipple could be an option if you are struggling finding a similar spoke size.

Good idea. I disassembled the wheel yesterday. Two spokes snapped and I stripped at least one nipple. I have ordered wood wheel nipples, which are very long. The originals are long but not as long as some other wood wheels I have worked on. I’m now excited to see if the new ones are longer. I’m trying to figure out how to clean the rims. Rust staining from the spokes is very hard to eliminate. I’ve not had a lot of luck removing wood wheel rust stains in the past. There is also some old dried tire glue that even xylene won’t touch. I’ve been chipping and using steel wool on the glue. I’m going to try alcohol next because if the glue is shellack that will remove it. If it’s hide glue hot water and chipping should do it. All the spoke heads and their depression are packed full of cement like glue, I may have to drill it out. I’ve scrubbed the rim with fine steel wool using xylene and a detergent. Looks about the same. Oxalic acid may help with the rust and phosphate may remove some of the ground in oil and grease. Lots of oil ground in because there is an open oil hole in the hub. I can’t find any advice on the net for cleaning wood that is this dirty. I haven’t look at spoke length yet. It’s hard to even find spokes long enough to replace the old 27 inch rims with low flange hubs. One of the local bike shops has a Phil Wood spoke machine. I’ve also got a source in California that I’ve used in the past for odd spoke sizes. The hub is sitting in a commercial rust remover and is starting to look good. It spins nice so new bearings are in order. I need a spacer behind the replacement cog and beer cans won’t work here. One problem at a time, to see if they can all be solved. Thanks for the idea, hopefully the new spoke nipples are longer. Wood wheel nipples come in at lest two length, hopefully my new ones are the longer size.

 

[keithglos]

Woz, Long spoke nipples are not threaded right through, that would make them very difficult when the thread reached the unthreaded part of the spoke, which are normally rolled threads.

Keith

 

[Nabeaquam]

Woz, Long spoke nipples are not threaded right through, that would make them very difficult when the thread reached the unthreaded part of the spoke, which are normally rolled threads.

Keith

I can have my guy in California roll the threads longer. Most people can’t but he has done this for me before. This won’t help where the nipple threads start but will give room for more adjustment when the wood shrinks. The slightly shorter spokes will allow continued truing, which is what happens with wood rims. I hope the amash wood wheels with the aluminum insert will prevent the constant fiddling. This longer nipple idea will work. Perhaps not ideal but good enough. I’ve done similar things before and I’ve never had a problem. These bikes I’ve jury rigged like that are only ridden on easy bike paths. Probably not a good idea for a daily commuter or a bike for the road or trails. I got the new nipples in the mail today and they are longer than the originals.

 

[Nabeaquam]

The best thing to remove the grime was paint remover. It’s called Aircraft Remover. It didn’t work worth a $#/t on getting the ground in dirt off but it sure removed the aircraft, didn’t see any while I was using it. Paint remover didn’t touch the glue or the splashes of white milk paint. Sanding after cleaning with detergent, 99% isopropyl, acetone, xylene and paint remover took off most of the ground in gunk, paint and glue. Plugs up your sanding block real fast as it’s gummy. Here it is during sanding. You can see how dirty the part I haven’t sanded is, even after all the chemical cleaners. Oxalic acid will probably brighten it more.

 

[Woz]

Woz, Long spoke nipples are not threaded right through, that would make them very difficult when the thread reached the unthreaded part of the spoke, which are normally rolled threads.

Keith

Yup.

Shock horror - between these two a full 2mm - and I mean a full whopping 2mm effective difference in height.



Picked an extreme example from various tat

Got a pair of wheels where the spoke threads are visible; a longer nipple would do better to hide the threads.

 

[Nabeaquam]

Longer nipples on wood wheels is a good Idea. The spoke wrench won’t fit on modern nipples because their buried in the wood, which is much thicker than metal rims. The original spoke nipples were so short that the last 25 turns had to be done with players, the slot was full of cement like glue and the nipples were imbedded in glue so a firm grip was necessary. The new nipples will be better to grab and will allow for more adjustments once Mr. Spoke threads the spokes.

The wheel has been bleached with oxalic acid. I’ll probably not stain it, just neutralize the acid and put on tung oil and some kind of varnish.

 

[jim haseltine]

I consider one of these to be an essential part of a wheel builder's tool kit

Even more essential if you're building something unusual or experimental.

 

[Nabeaquam]

I consider one of these to be an essential part of a wheel builder's tool kit

Even more essential if you're building something unusual or experimental.

I had a Hozan brand. I didn’t like it so I got rid of it. I also had a die. After two spokes the teeth on the die chipped off. Is the Cyclo, which I’ve never known about, a good machine? I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s easier to throw money at it to get spokes. They are very expensive if you pay for spokes. Mr. Spoke is more reasonable than the local bike shop. The LBS is very busy with repairs. They have a night shift and don’t open the door for customers until noon so they can work uninterrupted. Putting a guy on the spoke machine to do 72 spokes takes time that they have to charge for and keeps them off customers bikes. They use the spoke machine to replace a few spokes. Mr. Spoke only makes spokes and a lot of spokes you see on line are ones he made for others to sell. He is reasonable and fast, but you have to call him as he has no on line site. He is great at helping you solve problems. My 1930s wood wheeled Claud Butler track bike had spokes with very long butts and was a different gauge at each end. I wanted to use the original nipples so he made straight gauge spokes in a length I couldn’t find. He threw in, for free, washers for the hub where the spokes were thinner than the nipple end. Too bad the original spokes were so rusty.

 

[Nabeaquam]

I‘m really happy, and surprised, with how well the oxalic acid removed the rust and water stains. I’ve used oxalic acid for a deck wash, but never on rust stained wood wheels. I wish I had used it on other wheels. I neutralized the acid by soaking it in a baking soda solution. Then I painted on a strong bleach solution to lighten up the remaining stain. Now what? I’m not sure if I’ll stain it, I might stain it and put on several layers of tung oil to revive the wood, then a varnish sealer. I’ve ordered a spoke set 2mm shorter than the originals. One or two short is ok, according to the net. If that doesn’t work I’ll order again in 1mm short.