Fixing a Victorian

[Woz]

Think we can safely say there would be enough motives to make the axle as short as possible, a non-destructive / non-damaging method, not necessarily quick, not necessarily without tools either.

Thinking about this more, it makes sense the off-centre axle to initially install it and keep the cones in place, but doesn't make sense for all the grunting. Can't see another way other than to make the short side really short initially (1 - 2mm) like you say and simply go with the pain of adjusting with the wheel in the forks.

What I can see is something on the long side to then help thread the rest of the axle in and centre it - a simple groove cut in the axle end for a wide flat blade screw driver would help considerably.

It's a funny one this is - shows how we have been conditioned to an easy life of puncture repair.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

I think we need to convince nabeaquam that he needs a little lathe...
The nut job mod wouldnt take as long as it took to take a wheel out fix a puncture and put it back in!

 

[Nabeaquam]

It went from 15C this morning to 30C by noon here. Dead calm so I only partially put up the poly paint booth. It will be too hot in there if it’s up. It was so hot the paint didn’t flow, it dried the instant it hit the 45C frame surface. So, it’s not smooth, a little pebbly. What the, good enough, done is better than perfect.

Sanding in the shade.
Drinking coffee while the water rinse dries.
Pre final paint.
Final paint, good enough, perfect.

 

[Nabeaquam]

Think we can safely say there would be enough motives to make the axle as short as possible, a non-destructive / non-damaging method, not necessarily quick, not necessarily without tools either.

Thinking about this more, it makes sense the off-centre axle to initially install it and keep the cones in place, but doesn't make sense for all the grunting. Can't see another way other than to make the short side really short initially (1 - 2mm) like you say and simply go with the pain of adjusting with the wheel in the forks.

What I can see is something on the long side to then help thread the rest of the axle in and centre it - a simple groove cut in the axle end for a wide flat blade screw driver would help considerably.

It's a funny one this is - shows how we have been conditioned to an easy life of puncture repair.

I went in my attic to look at the original wheel. Boy, it’s light. It’s got an off set axle, but they are much shorter than the one on my vintage hub. Who knows if this was jury rigged or as original. My replacement vintage hub was designed for fender stays and a basket, so its way long compared to the original. I’ll cut it down. As usual for old American bicycles, there are no lock nuts, the fork holes are the lock mechanism. The axle easily backs off to flush as there are no lock nuts. I think without the lock nuts it’s easy to get it to fit. You have to turn it back to center and put on the axle nuts. The problem I’ve had with the lock nutless system is that the bearings end out to tight or too loose when the outer fork axle nuts are tightened, hard to get it perfect and to have it stay perfect. The original spins well and could be respoked onto a new wood rim, if you dont mind the hassle. I want the ambience without all the problems.

 

[hamster]

Without locknuts how do you stop bearing precession from jamming one side tight and shattering the bearing?

 

[keithglos]

Millions of roadster bikes (bolt on rear seat stays) were made without locknuts.. The hub nuts held the cones, we tended to adjust the wheel so that there was a very little play at the rim. they were not usually very accurately made either. Some had axles with a shoulder with a fixed cone tight up to it.

Keith

 

[Woz]

Without locknuts how do you stop bearing precession from jamming one side tight and shattering the bearing?

I think the principal is you finish the installation with tightening each cone against the nut the other side of the fork.

Completely different to todays principals where you will have a ready wheel to slot in forks. There is no ready wheel here to slot in.

EDIT: By "ready" I mean sufficient bearing pre-load on the cones to stop the wheel moving side to side.

 

[Woz]

Millions of roadster bikes (bolt on rear seat stays) were made without locknuts.. The hub nuts held the cones, we tended to adjust the wheel so that there was a very little play at the rim. they were not usually very accurately made either. Some had axles with a shoulder with a fixed cone tight up to it.

Keith

Nice to see you wade in Keith. You also helped answer something I found a while back.

Out of all the hubs I have wrenched on, this remains the absolute pinnacle of the non-QR crowd. Solid steel. +100 years old.




I tried to wrap my head around this, and concluded that you were supposed to finish the wheel in the frame.

 

[Nabeaquam]

I think the principal is you finish the installation with tightening each cone against the nut the other side of the fork.

Completely different to todays principals where you will have a ready wheel to slot in forks. There is no ready wheel here to slot in.

EDIT: By "ready" I mean sufficient bearing pre-load on the cones to stop the wheel moving side to side.

It works but it is a pain, fiddling around, ride, stop readjust a few times, accept what it is, pretty close. They had some stuff figured out , some stuff wasn’t as close to as good as they eventually came up with. I have a klunker with this type of fork. I love to ride it, The fork is much older than the bike. I got it sorted but I’m dreading a flat. It’s not the original fork, that was bent, it’s off a woman’s bike so I had to shorten the steerer length and shorten the truss rods. It’s what’s called a wishbone frame, the seat tube is behind the seat stays. It also has long chain stays. Good over straight line whoop de doos. Lousy on tight corners.

 

[Woz]

I went in my attic to look at the original wheel. Boy, it’s light. It’s got an off set axle, but they are much shorter than the one on my vintage hub. Who knows if this was jury rigged or as original. My replacement vintage hub was designed for fender stays and a basket, so its way long compared to the original. I’ll cut it down. As usual for old American bicycles, there are no lock nuts, the fork holes are the lock mechanism. The axle easily backs off to flush as there are no lock nuts. I think without the lock nuts it’s easy to get it to fit. You have to turn it back to center and put on the axle nuts. The problem I’ve had with the lock nutless system is that the bearings end out to tight or too loose when the outer fork axle nuts are tightened, hard to get it perfect and to have it stay perfect. The original spins well and could be respoked onto a new wood rim, if you dont mind the hassle. I want the ambience without all the problems. View attachment 645094

I suspected this. There is no concept of a cone spanner. Just a spanner. Excuse the UK English .... wrench.