Fixing a Victorian

[Mickeyspinn]

I dunno if my drawings help anyone, or if they're an accurate representation of what's going on here? Anyway- here's another.
It strikes me that if the collet assembly is 2+" deep, it may be (and have been) too long to get in or out via the bb? though I can see it's a large diameter shell by current standards.

Another maybe! Unless it comes out I guess the mystery will never be solved....part of me is itching to see it out and then to see how those seat stays meet the seat tube........but....if that collet cracks or gets buggered in anyway nabeaquam could be in a world of pain! I don't want to encourage him or tempt him in anyway
Making another collet to match whatever the internal taper is would be an absolute ball ache. comparing this one to his other colleted seatpost bike it's very obvious going by the diameters this one is very fine and probably giving a much better grip as it's a larger diameter....going by the quality of the bike it could be hardened....dunno...
A damn good clean by whatever methods possible and an oil up....as the fine man says...
Good enough.... perfect.

 

[Woz]

I dunno if my drawings help anyone, or if they're an accurate representation of what's going on here? Anyway- here's another.
It strikes me that if the collet assembly is 2+" deep, it may be (and have been) too long to get in or out via the bb? though I can see it's a large diameter shell by current standards.

Think you have nailed it !!!

 

[Woz]

How the collet position looks now is a bit worrying,.

Surely it needs to be well oiled and come up with a hook (or something) sufficiently for say a good 1/2 turn of the locknut.

 

[torqueless]

Yeah I understand. Some mysteries might be too much of a gamble to probe into- especially after 130 years. A related mystery being whether the manufacturer intended the thing to be removeable/serviceable, either by them, or their customers?
I dunno if I've nailed it Woz. That's just how I'd do it if it was my gig and I had the chops, which I don't ..

 

[Mickeyspinn]

How the collet position looks now is a bit worrying,.

Surely it needs to be well oiled and come up with a hook (or something) sufficiently for say a good 1/2 turn of the locknut.

It'll be loose as it is...put a finger through nut and into collet ...pull collet up with finger twiddle nut onto thread then post in and nip it up!
I want a colleted seatpost now...hhmm got me wondering about making one now

 

[Woz]

Right now I'm doing some prep work for copper pipe plumbing, soft brazing, so getting into the zone a bit.

It did occur to me if that "locking ring" thing is brazed in after the collet is put in from the top, you need to braze it upside down and rely purely on capillary action. If any solder drips down the whole mechanism is fcuked. You would need to be on the ball, and not generate too much heat to weaken the brazing on the rear stays too.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Right now I'm doing some prep work for copper pipe plumbing, soft brazing, so getting the zone a bit.

It did occur to me if that "locking ring" thing is brazed in after the collet is put in from the top, you need to braze it upside down and rely purely on capillary action. If any solder drips down the whole mechanism is fcuked. You would need to be on the ball, and not generate too much heat to weaken the brazing on the rear stays too.

I've been wondering this point....I very much doubt it tho...they were savvy but not masochists! The collet would compress enough to go past that shoulder ok...going by diameters and wall thicknesses it's a very fine taper that'll hold amazingly well but with age,missuse and overtightening not worth the risk trying to get it out.
I bet the collet sits on the Internal sleeve btw stopping it from sliding down..the dimpled stuff!

 

[Nabeaquam]

Another maybe! Unless it comes out I guess the mystery will never be solved....part of me is itching to see it out and then to see how those seat stays meet the seat tube........but....if that collet cracks or gets buggered in anyway nabeaquam could be in a world of pain! I don't want to encourage him or tempt him in anyway
Making another collet to match whatever the internal taper is would be an absolute ball ache. comparing this one to his other colleted seatpost bike it's very obvious going by the diameters this one is very fine and probably giving a much better grip as it's a larger diameter....going by the quality of the bike it could be hardened....dunno...
A damn good clean by whatever methods possible and an oil up....as the fine man says...
Good enough.... perfect.

My other collet bicycle has the 1930s pretty common American 5/8 inch diameter seat post, which is a solid steel rod. It’s narrow, the collet doesn’t grab well. It is probably on it’s last legs so I’m not removing it to look. I have replaced the gallows seat post in the photo and used an aircraft grade aluminum rod. It’s soft enough that the collet grabs better than the original. These old American bicycles had short seat posts so they wouldn’t fit adults but the bikes were too big for children. I had to push run along side my childhood bicycles and jump on, then stand up to ride. Any slight grade and you had to push because of over gearing. So, now people who want these old bikes for nostalgia bring the post up too high and the top of the frame snaps off. Both over gearing and short seat posts are left over design elements from this old Vicky. By the 1930s they made the frames shorter and very heavy, up to 50 pounds, so they are pretty useless unless you modify them. Five eights hot rolled longer rods bend, you have to use aircraft aluminum or cold rolled rods. The over gearing is fixed by using a smaller inch pitch chainring. These are hard to find but I have two spares. Schwinn posts were hollow and a little larger in diameter, but still very short. You can buy a long modern aftermarket Schwinn seat post but the cheap Chinese tubing bends when you hit a bump. I take a gas pipe, slather epoxy glue for lubricant on it and pound it inside the cheap junk Chinese replacement post. The post weighs more than a euro road bike but it won’t bend. What’s a few more pounds on a bike that is a tank already.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Right now I'm doing some prep work for copper pipe plumbing, soft brazing, so getting into the zone a bit.

It did occur to me if that "locking ring" thing is brazed in after the collet is put in from the top, you need to braze it upside down and rely purely on capillary action. If any solder drips down the whole mechanism is fcuked. You would need to be on the ball, and not generate too much heat to weaken the brazing on the rear stays too.

Sod the plumbing when you starting to build a bike frame?

 

[torqueless]

I want a colleted seatpost now...hhmm got me wondering about making one now

Now you probably do have the chops, judging from your threads elsewhere on here..