Find this funny...

[SeeingisBelievingGTMuseum]

Recently had a conversation with a current product manager for a major bike line and told him they were missing the boat and needed some late 80's early 90's geometry models with rigid forks and lively steel frames and this was his reply.

"retro spec bikes can't really be made now b/c of testing requirements. Old bikes would fail badly."

Have you ever heard so much crap? I guess maybe the industry should start recalling all these bikes we're enjoying?

Your thoughts...

 

[andrewl]

For a major brand and the development and testing involved there is actually an element of truth to the statement as a lot of stuff is tested well beyond what the actual rider will treat it to. So yes he could be correctly stating that they would fail said manufacturers tests – without knowing the actual testing requirements I’m theorising based on my engineering background.

Having seen a number of steel frames/forks fail (badly) back in the early 90s as well as more recent retro steel frame/forks fail there is obviously some evidence to back up his claim, but in the real world I’d say it has a low probability.

Given the relative ease of picking up good old frames, in my opinion there is little market for a major brand to do a late 80s early 90s style bike and that would kill the concept far more easily than the technical challenges.

 

[andrewl]

Additional:

As an example, remember that photo of the Fat BOI fork which failed when jumped. To a major brand that would be considered unacceptable now and hence you wouldn’t see the BOI put into mass production now without some redesign.

Also worth noting that in the US market (which is obviously a big chunk) the average weight of potential customers has also increased noticeably since the late 80s early 90s and so that also needs to be factored into your R&D.

 

[merckx]

i would be happy with simply the mass production of a few models of retro spec skinwall tyres

 

[biglev]

I think the guy is talking rubish. You can know a model up in Autodesk inventor or solid works ina few mins do some finite load test models etc. same at the do for current bikes. Retro geometry is not going to make a huge differenc to that. in fack the shorter travel / rigid applies less leverage than a long fork (although the forcs is applied quicker as there is no suspention). you get mass produced steel and alloy rigid 29ers. steel tubing has gotten stronger alloy weldign has impreved. 29ers would put more liverage on a fork tha a 26 wheel but they build them rigid. I am not sure he is thinking it through.

 

[Jones]

There was talk that the CEN test would see the demise of frames as we know them when it first came out

It does seem that lots of manufacturers are overbuilding frames now :? I was a little suprised to find lots of modern high end steel XC frames coming in way over the 5lb mark when I had a look recently :shock:

Although saying that Merlin ( U.K ) still have a claimed weight of 'from' 4.25 lbs for their 853 Rock Lobster, so I can't see how much has changed

 

[petitpal]

GT produced a limited production run of the Zaskar relatively recently didn't they? - to the same geometery and spec as the original (saw one in my LBS the other day). And that would, presumably, have had to have gone through the same tests. So I doubt it's purely those that are preventing it.

More likely is that an old geometery frane wouldn't fit their current product range/s; so more of a marketing thing I guess. Also, I suppose, if the industry is geared around producing components for modern geometery it might be less economical for them to produce something based on old; suspension forks, for example: seems to be tricky to find anything very modern that fits old frames. Same sort of applies to seat posts, flat bars and all the other stuff. That's what I found when rebuilding the Zaskar at any rate.



Edit: just realised I put project range instead of product. That's what you get for RBing at work.

 

[mikee]

being fashion led it'll not be long before mbuk et all are expousing the
virtues of 60mm travel do it all hard tails
maybe they just can't think up a name for them "hey what about short fronts , or low terrain , or .........

 

[MikeD]

GT produced a limited production run of the Zaskar relatively recently didn't they? - to the same geometery and spec as the original (saw one in my LBS the other day). And that would, presumably, have had to have gone through the same tests. So I doubt it's purely those that are preventing it.

Not the same geometry and not all that recently either -- certainly before CEN came along

That said, it's entirely possible. The Cotic Soul passes CEN for a 140mm fork and is what, 4.5lb or something? Clearly the manufacturers just don't want to do it. Which is kind of understandable -- it might look like a big market from in here, but how many would they sell really?

(I've tried to persuade the odd UK-based manufacturer to do something similar, with no luck as yet )

 

[We_are_Stevo]

Don't Ragley, On-One and now Saracen make hard tails (26 & 29) with 'Retro'ish' geometry?