Falkland Islands
- Thread starter greenstiles
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silverclaws
Senior Retro Guru
The fact you lost friends and family was because of something that picks us up and puts us down when it suits, for the populace have forever been the fodder for their canons.
Just look at the pattern; lack of opportunity and poverty forces people to join the military, ( remember the recruiting adverts that don't show the death and injury), governments stick their nose where it has no business and there fail at diplomacy necessitating military action.
After that military action has achieved the desired result the military and militarised are no longer needed and are indeed a threat so they are chucked back into civvy life to sink or swim.
But what is the military if it is not just another tool of achieving trade control and was that not why the military was formed in the first place, as I do know the formation of the Royal Navy was specifically to protect trade, but 'protect' is the operative word here, as protecting trade also means well, protecting trade by furthering it
But after wars after all the flag waving has died down and the nationalism has been put away until it is needed the next time, what of people, you know those that achieved what they did, what of them.
They are forgotten until we have things called remembrance days where for a fraction of time we re encouraged to remember those who gave so much, then it is business as usual and the continuation of everything having learned only that to further trade, the people are useful for their ability to pay and provide the man power after which they are not wanted.
The falklands war of 1982 was a political stunt as sense would be let the argies have the place as it provided no benefit to mainland Britain and as it was former colonies were being encouraged to split away.
The argie failing was they declared war and that had to be answered and what a boon for an unpopular and failing politician.
You do understand we are being manipulated, those that do it, are masters at it for they have been doing it a long time.
Just look at the pattern; lack of opportunity and poverty forces people to join the military, ( remember the recruiting adverts that don't show the death and injury), governments stick their nose where it has no business and there fail at diplomacy necessitating military action.
After that military action has achieved the desired result the military and militarised are no longer needed and are indeed a threat so they are chucked back into civvy life to sink or swim.
But what is the military if it is not just another tool of achieving trade control and was that not why the military was formed in the first place, as I do know the formation of the Royal Navy was specifically to protect trade, but 'protect' is the operative word here, as protecting trade also means well, protecting trade by furthering it
But after wars after all the flag waving has died down and the nationalism has been put away until it is needed the next time, what of people, you know those that achieved what they did, what of them.
They are forgotten until we have things called remembrance days where for a fraction of time we re encouraged to remember those who gave so much, then it is business as usual and the continuation of everything having learned only that to further trade, the people are useful for their ability to pay and provide the man power after which they are not wanted.
The falklands war of 1982 was a political stunt as sense would be let the argies have the place as it provided no benefit to mainland Britain and as it was former colonies were being encouraged to split away.
The argie failing was they declared war and that had to be answered and what a boon for an unpopular and failing politician.
You do understand we are being manipulated, those that do it, are masters at it for they have been doing it a long time.
The natives are restless tonight, sir
Cooped up on estates with no hope in sight
They need some kind of distraction
We can give them that
'Cause they'd kill if they only had something to kill for
They'd die if they only had something to die for
They'd cheer if they only had something to cheer for
We can give them that
So it's off to war we go (I couldn't believe it)
Bring out all the flags (I never believed it)
Fight the good fight
It's working like a dream, sir
Half the nation are hooked on the bait
Waiting for the next victorious instalment
We can give them that
'Cause it's no surprise that young men are heroes
It's no surprise that young men are strong
It's no surprise that young men are foolish
We've known that all along
Exciting pictures on News at Ten (I couldn't believe it)
Read all the crap on all the front pages (I never believed it)
Fight the good fight
Chorus:
Dead men in the South Atlantic
It's meant to warm our hearts
They think that they died for you and me
Oh God, what a farce, what a farce
And now it's the repeats
Plugging the Falklands and the Falklands' spirit
Show the pictures again and again
Till the next war comes around
'Cause we'll kill if we only have something to kill for
We'll die if we only have something to die for
We'll cheer if we only have something to cheer for
That is worthy of the name
Oh yes the next war (I never believed it)
See the propaganda in TV fiction (I never believed it)
Enemies with horns and tails
Chorus:
There are dead men in the South Atlantic
It's meant to warm our hearts
They think that they died for you and me
Oh God, what a farce, what a farce
There's crippled men back home in England
Doesn't it warm your hearts
They think they fought for peace and freedom
Poor boys, what a farce, what a farce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25iIePOTORc
I agreed with this back then but in my defence i was young.Now,not sure :?
Signal11th
Retro Guru
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1duck":2rh1b83r said:
Christ mate you talk some shit, Argentina has never had a valid claim, They invaded last time and lost, maybe you and few of your 5th column buddies can go and help out with the next "democratic" election they have in Argentina.
highlandsflyer
Retro Wizard
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I am the last person to attempt to dull the edge of a good debate, but there is surely room for a variety of opinions about the way forward for the Falklands, without resorting to name calling and heavy handedness?
It is not only poverty and lack of opportunity that fuels voluntary participation in the armed forces.
There is a great deal of tradition and pride involved in the decision to join up, borne of the generations who have done so in the name of good.
It is all too easy to criticise those who undertake great deeds on our behalf.
Incisive critics of warring nations at least acknowledge the sacrifice of those who leave their lives on the front lines, singling out the people who decided to put them there for the invective.
It is not only poverty and lack of opportunity that fuels voluntary participation in the armed forces.
There is a great deal of tradition and pride involved in the decision to join up, borne of the generations who have done so in the name of good.
It is all too easy to criticise those who undertake great deeds on our behalf.
Incisive critics of warring nations at least acknowledge the sacrifice of those who leave their lives on the front lines, singling out the people who decided to put them there for the invective.
silverclaws
Senior Retro Guru
To what end all these wars, does it serve us the majority, no it doesn't and never will hell, we have an ongoing war in Afghanistan, a war with ever changing objectives and guess what 'our boys' will retreat from that war under a claimed victory, but Afghanistan will go on as it ever did, for there has been no one who has ever invaded that land that has beaten them.
Did we not learn from Russia's failed attempt, why do we think ourselves so superior, because we are not and there are many dead and crippled to prove that. Bows and arrows against the lightning, it will be a pushover it was said, it has proved not to be else why still there, but what some did not understand is Afghans have never been beaten on their own territory and legend has it Afghanistan is where Alexander the great disbanded his armies.
But at home we reside in recession, but despite the global economy, we have wars to pay for where even a single round from a battlefield rifle costs over a quid, what cost the more sophisticated weaponry ? But it's all a game really isn't it, what the tv doesn't show is the real nastiness of war and the smell is enough to induce vomit, I for one could not ever work in an abbatoir. But war mongering is an industry, monger implying business and there money changing hands whilst better men exchange blows, but better men will die often horrifically with dependants at home mourning, families changed forever whilst arms manufacturers make a killing and advertise the effectiveness of their new killing machine to make even more money for themselves.
War achieves nothing for those that fight those wars, we would do well to deny our feckless governments the right to wage war, for many know on whose behalf they wage those wars whilst depleting our reserves and wasting our blood lines.
But if war is to be supported, get those that wage that war on the front line or at least their sons and daughters, because without, they are disconnected from what they demand of others.
The only reason that pillock camoron is getting excited, is it diverts attention away from his failings.
Besides Britain cannot defend the Falklands again as what is in charge has sold our rotting Harriers to the Americans, scrapped half our fleet and severely depleted the military to the point with all these conflicts going on overseas if France chose to invade now, who can stop them, we are wide open.
Did we not learn from Russia's failed attempt, why do we think ourselves so superior, because we are not and there are many dead and crippled to prove that. Bows and arrows against the lightning, it will be a pushover it was said, it has proved not to be else why still there, but what some did not understand is Afghans have never been beaten on their own territory and legend has it Afghanistan is where Alexander the great disbanded his armies.
But at home we reside in recession, but despite the global economy, we have wars to pay for where even a single round from a battlefield rifle costs over a quid, what cost the more sophisticated weaponry ? But it's all a game really isn't it, what the tv doesn't show is the real nastiness of war and the smell is enough to induce vomit, I for one could not ever work in an abbatoir. But war mongering is an industry, monger implying business and there money changing hands whilst better men exchange blows, but better men will die often horrifically with dependants at home mourning, families changed forever whilst arms manufacturers make a killing and advertise the effectiveness of their new killing machine to make even more money for themselves.
War achieves nothing for those that fight those wars, we would do well to deny our feckless governments the right to wage war, for many know on whose behalf they wage those wars whilst depleting our reserves and wasting our blood lines.
But if war is to be supported, get those that wage that war on the front line or at least their sons and daughters, because without, they are disconnected from what they demand of others.
The only reason that pillock camoron is getting excited, is it diverts attention away from his failings.
Besides Britain cannot defend the Falklands again as what is in charge has sold our rotting Harriers to the Americans, scrapped half our fleet and severely depleted the military to the point with all these conflicts going on overseas if France chose to invade now, who can stop them, we are wide open.
1duck
Senior Retro Guru
Signal11th":3rl18pmg said:
Which bit of argentina being closer to the falklands is shit exactly? saying that you have a valid claim because you stuck a flag in something a couple hundred years ago is hillarious. We should go take back hong kong whilst we are on, damn chinese stealing our colony.
Nations who have signed the UN charter, did indeed give up on "right to wage war" aka jus ad bellum, except in self-defense.
"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."
"All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."
sylus
Old School Grand Master
longun":2opzsbmm said:
Not to reply to you directly Longun but the sentiment
I'm sure many said they would never deal with germany or japan and some extent China after ww2 but never the less we seek german cars, german companies by our companies and japan and china have for decades provided us with goods we are hungry for
the same with the yankees//look how many wars they have been in and yet some of their best selling cars are japanese, german and dare I say...Korean. Not to forget the biggest sought after products again by an arch enemy..china
time will pass and whilst the fallen will not be forgotten by the falklanders there will be a peace of some kind and probably argentina will benefit from the charges for the oil companies when the black gold starts a pumping
There will I feel be a calming on demands after the vote as the u.n. will have to support a free and democratic vote by an almost entire population. Time will heal to a point where the oil will provide wealth for all parties and who owns the island will be less of an issue
Memories fade fast when everyone is getting a slice of the pie.
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