Ellis Briggs NOT gone into liquidation
- Thread starter nonowt
- Start date
I did one of his frame building courses last year and waited a year for my frame and even then it was unfinished, and only after threatening legal action.
I agree with a lot of what Paul says but writing a book and videos with Patreon are not going to clear his backlog. He needs an admin person to deal with ordering, shipping frames, invoicing and dealing with customers whilst he uses his undoubted skills to build.
He is passionate and I understand where he comes from but is also being incredibly selfish by not giving customers what they have paid for. If you can’t fulfil the work then don’t take it on in the first place.
Unfortunately this business is doomed imo.
I agree with a lot of what Paul says but writing a book and videos with Patreon are not going to clear his backlog. He needs an admin person to deal with ordering, shipping frames, invoicing and dealing with customers whilst he uses his undoubted skills to build.
He is passionate and I understand where he comes from but is also being incredibly selfish by not giving customers what they have paid for. If you can’t fulfil the work then don’t take it on in the first place.
Unfortunately this business is doomed imo.
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That's more or less the gist of it, albeit very much one side of the story (and an incomplete one at that). Only Paul knows his intentions but the more you dig, the less it looks like the simple narrative of a passionate craftsman in over his head, overwhelmed and burned out. So yes, 'pretty fricking frustrated' is an understatement
!My frame - by Paul's own admission - was complete and sent to the painters. How do you fail in simply forwarding on the complete product?! In theory, mine is the simplest to resolve in this new approach of his and should be one of the first out the door. We'll soon find out if he's telling the truth or not.
Absent too from the picture are the inferences customers drew from their interactions with him. I'm happy to elaborate on my own, if anyone is interested.
Agreed. Times have changed, the industry has moved on. Paul seems irked by newer builders trading off 'vibes'. The obvious riposte is 'If it's really that simple, and that's where the money is, why not beat them at their own game?'. That might also partially explain the re-brand mentioned earlier (to 'Ives Works') if he thinks EB's image is too stick-in-the-mud.
I remember he had lots of ideas for diversifying and he did seem to have his head in the clouds a fair bit looking out the window (time better spent on clearing the backlog, perhaps?!) while I was filing away .
'Fantasist' might be stretching it, but there's definitely an element that goes beyond mere romanticism IMO.
Spot on, Pete.
The video where he speaks of a Patreon for his upcoming book, it smacks of a cash grab. You don't need a Patreon to write a book, you just write a book. If it's any good it'll sell and you'll be quids in.
Youtube, frame building courses, Patreon books. He seems to be trying to find ways to monetize his trade without actually using his trade. There's an air of entitlement about it all.
If he's serious about his business, he needs to start putting in the hours. That's the only way to make any small business flourish, blood, sweat and tears. If he isn't prepared to make the necessary sacrifices then he should pull his head out of the clouds and find a real job.
Youtube, frame building courses, Patreon books. He seems to be trying to find ways to monetize his trade without actually using his trade. There's an air of entitlement about it all.
If he's serious about his business, he needs to start putting in the hours. That's the only way to make any small business flourish, blood, sweat and tears. If he isn't prepared to make the necessary sacrifices then he should pull his head out of the clouds and find a real job.
kermisking
Old School Hero
My cycling is mainly road based with road racing in the past . However I always find it entertaining and enlightening to watch a Paul Brodie the mountain bike frame builder (mainly) you tube clip . Paul sold his successful bike business but shares his skill and craft on camera . The instalment with Ross Schaefer ( sorry if I butchered your name Ross ) is in absolute gem about the frame building business and how much work is involved and stress , learning , trying to find a niche . Ross was a road frame builder but had fillet brazing skills and sort of fell into mountain bike frame making which became is main line of work . These guys had nothing , no established name but they succeeded . A lot of hard work and sweat and mental anguish for little reward in the beginning .
dirttorpedo
Senior Retro Guru
I saw the video the other day and thought it was odd he was going to add writing a book to his workload. Its understandable that he got behind due to illness as a one man operation that offered frame building courses. The Pegoretti documentary published shortly before his death showed that he had three or four assistants in his workshop which would allow him to keep organized and progressing on projects if he was ill.
Its unfortunate that we are losing so many bespoke frame builders - while steel frames are easily repairable, you're not going to repair one if you don't have a frame builder who can do the job in a cost effective manner near by.
Its unfortunate that we are losing so many bespoke frame builders - while steel frames are easily repairable, you're not going to repair one if you don't have a frame builder who can do the job in a cost effective manner near by.
Funny you should mention that.
He advertises his frame building course as 'an invitation to craft your own bicycle masterpiece', yet when I explained what I wanted out of the frame (a modern lugged all-rounder), he instead tried to direct me towards building something like the dedicated rim-brake randonneur in the shop window. As lovely as it was, I disagreed, after which his face changed and he started with subtle digs about bicycle mod-cons (e.g. disc brakes, thru-axles) and why they were unnecessary.
Either the course wasn't for me (and he could have sent me home the first day after discussing a custom frame built by him instead) or the course is taught as advertised.
Paul says in response to a comment in the posted YT vid that it isn't gate-keeping for the sake of it. Experiences as above leave you believing otherwise.
I do wonder about that. There are so many variables/unknowns, though, that I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt. There's such a fine line between genuine criticism and cynicism that it's easy to stray into the latter.
At the risk of sounding like Tony Blair, all I'll say is: communication, communication, communication. Customers would be a lot more patient (and far less inclined to mistrust) if he didn't just ghost them for months/years.
I mean, even if you avoided a really personal touch, how long would it take to come up with a generic e-mail merge from scratch? 10 minutes? 15, tops?
I see you can’t comment on his Video, not surprised. It’s just unbelievable the guy has peoples money for months and years without producing and then thinks he’s going to write a book, and get paid for it!
Incidentally, when I did eventually get my frame back there were all kinds of problems not apparent until assembly and these were errors on his part that could no way have been picked up during the course. It it were a frame I had bought it would have been returned as not fit for purpose. Thankfully I have been able to resolve them at the cost of time and money.
Poor workmanship can be added to the list of deficiencies with this business. Trading standards got it wrong, he really needs to be struck off to save people being parted with their hard earned and the stress this causes.
Incidentally, when I did eventually get my frame back there were all kinds of problems not apparent until assembly and these were errors on his part that could no way have been picked up during the course. It it were a frame I had bought it would have been returned as not fit for purpose. Thankfully I have been able to resolve them at the cost of time and money.
Poor workmanship can be added to the list of deficiencies with this business. Trading standards got it wrong, he really needs to be struck off to save people being parted with their hard earned and the stress this causes.
Speaking of: they never once got in contact with an update either way. Even if they'd concluded he was legit, would have been nice to have at least known they'd investigated.
Makes you wonder what the point of them is TBH.
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