early Orange P7 frame anomaly (geek post)

[rwm1962]

A keen eyed member on the Retro Orange Bike Owners facebook group noticed the stepped seat tube on my 1993 P7.

The one in the 1993/94 catalogue is straight as are all the ones I can see via google image search.

There was some discussion on this P7 (link) with no frame number as to it being a pre-production as it didn't have the wishbone seat stays. This also has a straight seat tube.

I've only seen this step on Clockworks & Prestiges up to & including 1993. Anyone seen this on another P7?



As this one has some provenance, being previously owned by an Orange employee I wonder if this step suggests this is (another?) pre-production model?

When did the P7 actually launch? The earliest catalogue I've seen with the P7 is unhelpfully dated 1993/4. The serial number on this one starts A305 which indicates May 93 manufacturer. So far I've only checked one Shimano component which is stamped for Jan 1994 manufacture suggesting bike was assembled some time in 1994.

 

[marc two tone]

Re:

Provenance? Who was that person? Would be all settled if that be determined.

Ok, I'm all for it being a workshop mock up of a proposed p7 that the guys may have been discussing but, it's very fresh, not rode to test its character sort of thing, as you'd expect.

Could it just be a 1993 clockwork repainted and decal'd up?

I'm hoping for a juicy outcome though.

 

[rwm1962]

Haven't a clue, nor if they are a current or ex employee. I'm going from what the shop owner told me. The guy had donated it to be sold for the charity the shops involved with. (Happy Days in Sowerby Bridge). Hardly ridden & stored in loft.

It's got some differences to the Clockwork of the time. No rack mounts or rear mudguard eyelets, top tube/seat stay routed front mech cable & cable guides on side of top tube

 

[rwm1962]

Eventually found another example on ebay but with bosses on wishbone. I've asked the seller to confirm the first part of the frame number. I reckon it'll be a 1993.

ebay pics - I suspect the orange coloured decals are repro for a 96 P7 - note F7 decal on downtube.



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254728351641?ul_noapp=true

 

[marc two tone]

Re:

Yeah, now you got me thinking. Can't be a coincidence.

I envisage that the workshop guys took unpainted clockworks and created the next 'thing'. The too long steerer is bugging me, unless the original headset had a huge stack height, later replaced.

Anyways, you seem to have a rare machine there!

Enjoy mate.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

It's interesting for sure. The catalogue is a 1993 one, not sure why someone put 93/94? I had one in late 92 and by 94 the Prestige and Aluminium Elite were gone.

Saying all that, the P7 certainly wasn't in the shops before 1993 as I remember looking out for it as it was in the catalogue. Maybe they had production problems so sourced from a different factory? Bit like when they changed tubes for the Prestige to Ritchey?

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

I think the answer lies in the final few paragraphs in the 1993 catalogue that I've just re-read.

 

[Cheshire1980]

Re: Re:

I think the answer lies in the final few paragraphs in the 1993 catalogue that I've just re-read.

yep the last few paragraphs of the 93 brochure certainly do sum it up.

 

[rwm1962]

Re: Re:

I envisage that the workshop guys took unpainted clockworks and created the next 'thing'. The too long steerer is bugging me, unless the original headset had a huge stack height, later replaced.

Aye, odd is that steerer. I'm pretty sure it's not a Clockwork in disguise. One day I'll do a weight comparison. I certainly will enjoy it! Cheers.

It's interesting for sure. The catalogue is a 1993 one, not sure why someone put 93/94?

Great to know! It's how it's been archived here. Same goes for the next catalogue, listed as 95/96. I have an original but not dated. I reckon that is 1995

Last few paragraphs - see what you mean! We've seen other anomolies so shouldn't be surprised!

 

[mullinino]

Re:

Interestin stuff to me too at the min, I'm nearly done refurbin / building up an identical frame (and non-original fork) with I think all the same pointers as yours...seller only knew it as an 'early P7' although I do have a serial number for you experts which is A3050669 , would love to know the year to put in the title of my forthcoming super-inflated-that-London-prices rip-off Ebay ad, any help much appreciated, P.