Do you notice extreme negative views of none retrobikers when you say you are trying to work with an older bike?

[highlandsflyer]

+ Tyre.

Let's not forget trouser or skirt fit.

 

[Gtpulse]

And budget!

When I first started cycling again fixed gear was the cheapest way I could do it. Certainly got me fit quickly.

 

[dirttorpedo]

I'll probably get roasted for this, but I'm going to say that we get push back from non-retrobikers because newer is better. Even when you compare like for like. There has been so much progress in braking systems, frame geometries - particularly around tire clearance and rider position, and cockpit design that its hard to beat a modern purpose built bike. Sure, I still love my vintage 80's bikes, but some of them are quite impractical. My Miyata 1000 touring bike - which I took on two tours this summer - can only take 35mm tires with fenders and lacks really good wet weather braking under loads. Heck, even the rack mounting braze ons suck. If I bought a modern touring bike I could fit 42mm or fatter tires with fenders and benefit from disc brakes to bring me and my load to a safe stop on wet days. My mountain bikes require fugly stems and riser bars to get me into a semi comfortable riding position and an upgrade to v-brakes for reasonable braking performance.

Don't know if I'm getting grumpier in my old age, but my bike collection is definitely getting younger and the old ones are only taken out on sunny days and not ridden in anger any longer.

 

[bold stelvis]

tyre clearance is pretty much a fashion thing I think
many older bikes had pretty good clearance (maybe not modern 'gravel' widths) then in the 90s everything got tighter and you couldn't get more than a 25c through the brakes on most road bikes

my 1984 peugeot (supposedly a racer) can do 32c with guards with quite a lot of room to spare. Chain stays are the limiting factor rather than brakes or fork clearance - you could maybe get a 35c in there if you took the dropout set screws out and rammed the wheel as far back is it would go. The dimples in the chainstays are kinda odd in that they almost look like they were designed for a smaller wheel size (eg if I ran a 27.5 there would be gobs of room)

If it had been a late 80s or 90s model no chance.

 

[dirttorpedo]

tyre clearance is pretty much a fashion thing I think
many older bikes had pretty good clearance (maybe not modern 'gravel' widths) then in the 90s everything got tighter and you couldn't get more than a 25c through the brakes on most road bikes

my 1984 peugeot (supposedly a racer) can do 32c with guards with quite a lot of room to spare. Chain stays are the limiting factor rather than brakes or fork clearance - you could maybe get a 35c in there if you took the dropout set screws out and rammed the wheel as far back is it would go. The dimples in the chainstays are kinda odd in that they almost look like they were designed for a smaller wheel size (eg if I ran a 27.5 there would be gobs of room)

If it had been a late 80s or 90s model no chance.

Agree and probably a reflection on the improvement in road quality from the 70's to the 90's. My Ellis Briggs is running 700 x 32 and I could probably squeeze 35's in there if I deflate them to remove/mount. If I could convert to Mafac Racers I could probably run those 35's without deflating to mount/remove.

I may be naive, but I think the tire width thing is with us now unless new research debunks the fatter, low pressure tire is faster evidence of the past few years.

 

[bikeworkshop]

Agree and probably a reflection on the improvement in road quality from the 70's to the 90's. My Ellis Briggs is running 700 x 32 and I could probably squeeze 35's in there if I deflate them to remove/mount. If I could convert to Mafac Racers I could probably run those 35's without deflating to mount/remove.

I may be naive, but I think the tire width thing is with us now unless new research debunks the fatter, low pressure tire is faster evidence of the past few years.

Older tourers/club sport bikes had tyre clearance -

27x1&1/4 was such a common size up to the 1980s

That's 32mm,
leave some space for huge chrome mudguards, drop the wheel size from 630 to 622 and you've usually got room for a 700x37
(& a work around for the guards)

The trouble is, the longer the drop of the brake arms, the weaker the brakes.
Simple.

- so one reason a sportier bike was built for narrower tyres was in order to get better braking.

Cantis almost fixed that, but didn't penetrate the racing world, (excluding CX, which is for weirdos anyway) so weren't desirable on status bikes

Disc brakes carried braking power and status, so now we can have fat tyres again

It took over 10 years though from discs' requirement on mtbs to pass via tourers into the racing world.

The Trickle-Up effect

 

[bold stelvis]

I kinda agree re the brakes but thats also cos a lot of the brakes used back then were just shit in general

first thing I did when I got the pug was to remove the flexy weinmann 500 calipers/bad non-aero levers and replace with shimano BR600s (which are still long drop compared to modern race calipers) and modern levers - MUCH better despite the 57mm reach calipers

 

[dirttorpedo]

Older tourers/club sport bikes had tyre clearance -

27x1&1/4 was such a common size up to the 1980s

That's 32mm,
leave some space for huge chrome mudguards, drop the wheel size from 630 to 622 and you've usually got room for a 700x37
(& a work around for the guards)

The trouble is, the longer the drop of the brake arms, the weaker the brakes.
Simple.

- so one reason a sportier bike was built for narrower tyres was in order to get better braking.

Cantis almost fixed that, but didn't penetrate the racing world, (excluding CX, which is for weirdos anyway) so weren't desirable on status bikes

Disc brakes carried braking power and status, so now we can have fat tyres again

It took over 10 years though from discs' requirement on mtbs to pass via tourers into the racing world.

The Trickle-Up effect

Agreed. My only observation is that modern long reach dual pivot brakes are significantly better than vintage medium reach single pivots so you can still get a tire width and braking performance improvement by upgrading a vintage sport touring bike to 700c or 650b with long reach Tektros.

 

[bikeworkshop]

The "super deep drop" twin pivots are noticeably weaker than the "deep drop" ones, and you're still quite limited to tyre size - a lot of people are fitting 700x42, 45, 27.5x1.9 on their on/off road tourers.

And then you wear your rims out, and find that size is obsolete!
The newest mavic open pros are now available in 24 and 28 hole....only.

Time for a clever spoke pattern

 

[bold stelvis]

the modern fad for what seem to me, to be extremely low spoke counts, I just don't get at all.
fair enough on some high end weight weeny race wheel, but even budget shimano's have like 16 spokes these days