Dear Halfords

[enc]

Re:

even gob on a stick has somethiong to say on the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pzMWR8DCpE

and on the other hand ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NucJarsRV8

 

[pigman]

Re:

Im always surprised that people think paying over £100 for a bike is a waste of money, but will happily pay an extra £5k to own a german car or a couple of £k to have options like electric leather seats etc in a car.

The idea that the bike makes no difference, it's all down to the legs helps to reinforce that mindset. Even on here, we've had threads telling us that "on my 30 year old steel bike, I dropped someone riding carbon, therefore they have been fooled into spending unnecessary money"

The main problem for me with Apollos, is the need to "give more" for a price point. So we have crap chromed dual-suspension systems and triple chainsets. Sell hard tails with a single 36T chainwheel, a 14-30 6 speed freewheel, a cheap thumbie gear lever and you have a reliable bike with gears to go anywhere.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Dear Halfords

i work in a bike shop, i am the mechanic, a good one, trained and qualified. what i would like to ask is:- can you as a brand please stop selling such poor quality rubbish such as your own apollo brand, it's horrendously poor quality, badly made, poorly assembled mass produced rubbish in the shape of a bike with some of the worst designed and made parts i have ever come across in my 20 years in the cycle trade. what exaggerates the terrible bikes is they are put together by your untrained disinterested (in bikes) staff or given to customers to assemble themselves, either way they can not be considered safe to use by the end user, most of which are kids. you as a company should not be allowed to sell bikes, it's wrong of you to do so in this manner.

i have to put up with your customers coming in to my workplace upset because there are limits to what can be done to repair these bikes, limited by the lack of quality in the components, upset when i have to tell them to replace a part as it's dead or the parts are simply unavailable to repair. what compounds the issue is most of these customers always want to pay the least amount for anything as they already got sucked into your "50% off" promotion which we all know is a blatant sales lie, the bike was never "£400" and "now only £200" the rrp should at most be £100 and even that is a rip off for such an utter pile of scrap metal.

so please stop selling these bikes, get some actual trained staff and concentrate on selling bikes like the Boardmans after they have been checked properly by trained mechanics.

selling apollo etc bikes can only damage your reputation, upset customers, put people off cycling and cause bike mechanics across the country to hate you as a brand.



---------------


while i know there will be some useful staff in selected shops who will do their level best to sell a better bike than the apollo brand, this week i have had the misfortune of attempting to repair some utter dross where the customers simply don't know or can't comprehend just how bad the "bikes" they have bought are. i understand people have a budget which halfords and toys r us etc cater for price wise but these bikes do nothing for the industry but make the owners hate riding and think they are being ripped off, by halfords for selling them rubbish when they finally realise it's rubbish or they feel ripped off by the local bike shop because they simply don't understand why it costs a lot to repair their bike at not far off the price they paid for it.

i have been so frustrated dealing with these customers this last few days, they are very unhappy to be told "it will cost £XXX" or "i can't repair that i have to replace that part, i realise it's only 3 months old but . . . ", but to give them bikes back that are repaired and safe is simply what i want to do but i'm limited by their budget and misunderstanding of what the "bike" actually needs to be safe.

i just wish these poor quality objects simply didn't exist.

Pfft. You need to get over yourself mate.

Firstly, why are you complaining? If I had a little independent bike shop doing repairs and servicing for the bike-ignorant masses, I would be saying "Thank you!" to Halfords.

Secondly, Halford's are the least of your worries - why pick on them? You've got all the large supermarkets plus Sports Direct, Go Outdoors, Argos (none of whom have bike-trained staff or even a workshop), Amazon, eBay, etc, etc (for self-assembly). It's not just Apollo - try Viking, Dunlop, Muddy Fox, Reebok, Terrain, Vertigo, and yes Dawes, Claud Butler and any number of other bargain-basement names. The difference is Halford's also sell Carrera (brilliant value decent bikes), Boardman, Voodoo (designed by Joe Murray), Kona and can even order in Colnago! In other words, the whole range of customers' expectations. At least Halford's have a work station, the right tools and staff who, at least in my local store (Southport), are knowledgeable, keen, well-trained (particularly in PDI) and helpful. You'd be amazed how many people don't care what crap they ride - they've got a 'limited budget'. They expect it to get robbed (they leave it anywhere with the cheapest lock available, if any). They expect it to rust (they leave it up the side of the house, forever). They expect things to not work (they do zero maintenance). So why would they pay more?

By the way, Halford's are getting the same customers as you - they bring in their back-yard-wrecks/self-assembly nightmares and expect to ride away on them a day later.

And no, I don't work there or have any connection with them. I'm just tired of the bad rep they have (unjustly in my opinion) that people like you perpetuate.

Rant over.

 

[jonnyboy666]

Re:

that's a bit harsh of a response and also a lot of assuming by you. i don't own the shop , i work there so I (as in me personally) don't make any money out of working on them other than my normal wage. so that's your first assumption that was wrong.

halfords i referred to specifically as all the bikes that had been problem bikes and in these cases problem customers were all Apollo bikes, halfords own brand, specifically not any other brands from toys r us etc.

while you say you don't like people moaning about halfords i get frustrated first hand when a lady walks into the shop and asks me to fix the brakes on her kids bike, i look at it and see mangled rusty brakes, plastic brake levers and cables rusted solid with worn pads, not to mention the classic of the forks facing backwards, i quote £12.50 for each brake, £7 for cables inner and outer, £15 for levers (metal) and £20 for a brake service, so that's £67, all genuine shimano stuff including the cables, she complains that it's too much and that she can get a whole bike for £100 which is "50% off" at halfords like this one was, "when did you buy it?" she says "christmas" so it's lasted less than 8 months (ridden for 8 months with the fork backwards) and in her eyes apparently that's acceptable, if she paid the £67 she'd have brakes that work on that bike which is less than the £100 deal she thinks is value for money and it would work better than the new bike she could get.

this happens approx 3 or 4 times a day, it's the same conversation over and over to the point where the customers simply don't understand that what they have bought is poor quality, it's hard to point this out without upsetting the owner, especially the mums on low incomes, but i get the question, (direct quote) "can you botch it?" and my answer is no, i will not "botch" the brakes on your childs bike and they should not ask me to, if i can't fix the brakes properly which are arguably the most important part of the bike then i'd rather not touch the bike as if i do i have a liability issue when the poor quality parts fail again.

all of my argument is coming from a safety point of view, not a "it's crap and cheap and i hate it" point of view.

if you have a good halfords near then you are fortunate, we don't, the local branches near us are terrible, a friend worked there a while ago and left due to an argument with the manager as he wanted to replace a whole load of brake cables on new bikes that had rusted while sat in the container they arrived in, the manager told him to just oil them, they were solid, my friend quit his job at halfords as a result of the manager not trusting the qualified mechanic, so when the manager fails to listen to the guy that knows more then him just because he is junior in rank then that is a problem.

while halfords can get all manner of different quality brands the issue is their ability to set them up and this will vary shop to shop just like it would in a any normal bike shop, the difference is they are a massive brand and they should strive to do better and be consistent across the branches in the PDI's etc.

also to say people don't expect them to work is partially right, if a bike is being brought into me then they want it worked on, the problem is that most people who buy these bikes can not comprehend that the repair bills can be almost as much as the bike cost, this makes it extremely hard when i quote for a repair, because as soon as i tell them the price of the parts they need they are shocked because i will only sell a part i can rely on and guarantee.

it's a never ending argument that i can only come at from a safety angle, most of the time it's the only argument the owners (mums and dads) can understand.

so there's me "getting over myself", i'm sorry that i worry about the safety of children, next time i'll just botch their bikes for a fiver and say Uncle Buck says it'll be ok and halfords are great and at least it's not from Toy R Us.

:roll:

 

[Uncle Buck]

Re: Re:

that's a bit harsh of a response and also a lot of assuming by you. i don't own the shop , i work there so I (as in me personally) don't make any money out of working on them other than my normal wage. so that's your first assumption that was wrong.

I assumed nothing - I merely imagined what I'd do/think if I ran/owned/worked in a bike shop.

halfords i referred to specifically as all the bikes that had been problem bikes and in these cases problem customers were all Apollo bikes, halfords own brand, specifically not any other brands from toys r us etc.

I find that hard to believe.

while you say you don't like people moaning about halfords i get frustrated first hand when a lady walks into the shop and asks me to fix the brakes on her kids bike, i look at it and see mangled rusty brakes, plastic brake levers and cables rusted solid with worn pads,

Worn pads? So at least the brakes have been working!

not to mention the classic of the forks facing backwards, i quote £12.50 for each brake, £7 for cables inner and outer, £15 for levers (metal) and £20 for a brake service, so that's £67, all genuine shimano stuff including the cables,..

Why? Why not use budget parts, Madison, Clarkes? It's like icing a turd! And who assembled it - grandad, probably, saving a further few bob?

...she complains that it's too much and that she can get a whole bike for £100 which is "50% off" at halfords like this one was, "when did you buy it?" she says "christmas" so it's lasted less than 8 months...

Christmas in what year? Customers are notoriously inaccurate about timescales.

...(ridden for 8 months with the fork backwards) and in her eyes apparently that's acceptable, if she paid the £67 she'd have brakes that work on that bike which is less than the £100 deal she thinks is value for money and it would work better than the new bike she could get.

this happens approx 3 or 4 times a day, it's the same conversation over and over to the point where the customers simply don't understand that what they have bought is poor quality, it's hard to point this out without upsetting the owner, especially the mums on low incomes, but i get the question, (direct quote) "can you botch it?" and my answer is no, i will not "botch" the brakes on your childs bike and they should not ask me to, if i can't fix the brakes properly which are arguably the most important part of the bike then i'd rather not touch the bike as if i do i have a liability issue when the poor quality parts fail again.

all of my argument is coming from a safety point of view, not a "it's crap and cheap and i hate it" point of view.

if you have a good halfords near then you are fortunate, we don't, the local branches near us are terrible, a friend worked there a while ago and left due to an argument with the manager as he wanted to replace a whole load of brake cables on new bikes that had rusted while sat in the container they arrived in, the manager told him to just oil them, they were solid, my friend quit his job at halfords as a result of the manager not trusting the qualified mechanic, so when the manager fails to listen to the guy that knows more then him just because he is junior in rank then that is a problem.

while halfords can get all manner of different quality brands the issue is their ability to set them up and this will vary shop to shop just like it would in a any normal bike shop, the difference is they are a massive brand and they should strive to do better and be consistent across the branches in the PDI's etc.

also to say people don't expect them to work is partially right, if a bike is being brought into me then they want it worked on, the problem is that most people who buy these bikes can not comprehend that the repair bills can be almost as much as the bike cost, this makes it extremely hard when i quote for a repair, because as soon as i tell them the price of the parts they need they are shocked because i will only sell a part i can rely on and guarantee.

it's a never ending argument that i can only come at from a safety angle, most of the time it's the only argument the owners (mums and dads) can understand.

so there's me "getting over myself", i'm sorry that i worry about the safety of children, next time i'll just botch their bikes for a fiver and say Uncle Buck says it'll be ok and halfords are great and at least it's not from Toy R Us.

Toys'R'Us! I forgot them!

Look, I hate this - this picking apart a post business. I'd much rather be having this discussion over a pint. I'm all for "think of the children" (my granddaughter races, after all) but to level all your angst at Halford's is simply unfair.

Sometimes I work at a grower/packer (of veg). The pickers are all foreign. There are legions of them. They buy the cheapest bikes possible from a large reputable online bike seller. Every one of them has one or both brakes inoperative, the chains are rusted to baggery, they're stuck in one gear and there's an Asda bag on the saddle. Do they care? No. They can still get from field to field without walking. And next year/month/week, they'll buy another. There's a skip full of dead ones round the back!

There's your Apollo market, right there.

 

[jonnyboy666]

Re:

picking a part your post? i think you'll find i answered your questions, what you have done above by quoting is picking apart a post.

but if you did own or work in a shop and have this presented to you regularly i'm sure your opinion would change, i don't know what you do/did for a living, but when a customer is too daft to accept that their own child is riding an unsafe bike that they themselves have provided and are then prepared to ask for botch work is simply unacceptable to me.

you say you don't believe that they were Apollo bikes, the Evade, 21 speed, steel hubs with disc brakes, black and white paintwork, and the Slant, again black and white with green if memory serves, are the current models of choice, the bmx with brake issues was a pink apollo, i forget the name. but then apparently you don't believe me so describing them is probably not enough, hmm i must be a dishonest liar, i'll take pictures next time before i even dare to post on the subject or poor quality bikes.

the pads on the bmx were worn, arguably they might have been working but the fact that one of the arms/pads was stuck against the rim would wear the pad, hmm forgot to take a picture for you, sorry.

budget parts are available, we are a shimano stockist though, also when the alternatives are only maybe a pound cheaper at retail why bother with them as a recognised name is worth paying the extra pound for, besides that's arguing over a minimal amount as across the whole bill as it's a minor amount of difference.

i also like the way you are agreeing the bikes are "turds" while also inferring the customers are too stupid to know which christmas year they got the bike in.

frankly i can't really see what you're defending, you agree the bikes are bad, and you infer the customers are lying about the age of the bikes, you don't believe that i have worked on Apollo bikes this last week or so, but you're defending halfords and suggesting using budget parts, you sure you don't work for halfords?

also my "angst" is not just the local halfords, and you'll see in my original post i even point out it's not all halfords branches. frankly it's the Apollo brand i hate more than halfords but it's their brand and i don't believe it's a safe product, halfords attitude is that it's is "affordable", it may well be affordable but it doesn't make it right.

 

[dyna-ti]

Re: Re:

picking a part your post? i think you'll find i answered your questions, what you have done above by quoting is picking apart a post.

Indeed.

Not like Helfrauds ? yeah well neither do I and for the exact same reason so many in the industry dislike them.
Theyre only in it for the income and care not a jot about cycling.
The low end bikes they market so readily are not worth the title bicycle.
In the day you can only fix a smaller number of halfrauds piss poor as setting them up is a nightmare. EVERY component resists tuning. All bolts are as cheap as could be and the machining is out of this world for tolerance. As in its friggin miles out

So the customer come in with a bike that resists fixing. So you tell them the components need replaced which to some especially these days is something they did not want to hear. Most times its the hubs that have loosened off due to the crud cheap components not holding. They could only afford a cheap bike so 25 or 30 quid for a new wheel ends the bikes life for them.
Unable to afford the repair the bike (that could have instilled a fitness regime, you know how addictive and stimulating cycling actually is) the POS sits in the back garden or in a damp shed and rusts away faster than a north sea oil rig. Well, given all the components are made of cheap mild steel its actually a wonder they survived the sea voyage from Taiwan.

Cheap bike do the customer no good. They do the industry no good and nobody wants to fix them because they resist it and that costs too much of the mechanics time when there are other paying customers bikes waiting to be done
I can probably do 5 bikes in the time it would take me to do a helfraudulent, being happy enough to release it back onto the road so the customer doesn't die.

Or hey, tighten up that headset or stem bolt to torque and the fker shears, leaving a bit inside That equals MORE TIME or worse, replace the part :facepalm:

Its a horrible deal for the customer.
And I suppose that could be a bit distressing to some :?

In the end theres only one winner and that is helfrauds*.

*This term is bloody universal so its not just us. Many peoples first experience either as an adult or a child(though they will ride it in any unsafe condition :facepalm: ) of this wonderful sport/pastime/obsession is sullied. I have seen many sad faces leave the counter.

Often told
They removed the top race from my CK by jamming a small flat bladed screwdriver between it and the upper cup and levering it off.

Wouldn't than ruin the top race and even the cup I hear you ask ?.

Yup, that's exactly what happened

And at the same time left the top internal circlip off the rebound cartridge on my Z2 bam that id owned since its birth and had loved and had saved my bacon many a time from sudden drops and potholes.
First compression the internal screw impacts into the internal thread buggering it completely. SCRATCH one rebound cartridge, and as the bomber only has the one well that's that fked too.

One of my very worst decisions in my entire lifetime :? You know how proud you can be with your to bike and this was my clocky, all Hope discs and wheels. I polished the logos off with love on that headset :cry: That was about 2000 and there weren't many in my riding friends had discs back then.

I HATE THEM WITH A PASSION.

 

[widowmaker]

Re:

I have had the misfortune to work on a Apollo bike this week for a friend :shock:

When asked was it a good buy - I had to tell the truth :x

My 25 year old Marin Bolinas that I use for my Station bike is a million times better.

 

[walleater]

Re:

We just try and quote 'worst case scenario' pricing with these sorts of POS bikes. Why should we be the ones taking a hit when the companies that sell these bikes, and the people that buy them are the ones benefiting? I'd rather the customer just go away and buy another $100 bike than us charge $100 to fix the one they have and still have it riding like crap. It's general a 'no win' situation fixing these bikes. We don't turn people away, just give them the facts and if they are happy to spend potentially 2 hours labour plus parts for a repair and still potentially have a poo-heap, then so be it.

FTR, I had two bikes from Halfords when I was younger and without them I probably wouldn't have got into cycling, so I have no real hate on for them, but they are what they are.

 

[troje]

Here in Holland every child has a bike and almost all of them use it to ride to school, it's a great thing I believe. Once a year in October, when the days get shorter, as a volunteer I run a bicycle check for all scholars at my daughter's primary school. It's organised together with the ANWB (Dutch equivalent of the AA. Scholars all are asked to bring their bicycle and during a whole day we check if they are safe. Brakes, lightning, tyre profile, bell, etc. We repair on the spot what we can repair and if it is more complicated we have an arrangement with the local cycle repair shop. All scholars receive a paper report on which we write down what condition the bike is in. So I usually see around 50 children cycles on this day.

It's frightening to see how many children are sent on the road with an unsafe bicycle. The majority are those that are bought for around 100 Euro at the local Halfords or equivalent. The main difference between a quality brand and the Halfords crap is that the quality ones keep functioning. Even after constant abuse and overloads of rain exposure. The Halfords stuff dies instantly and vital things like brakes just stop working. Brakes on those bikes are so crap, you won't believe it. The worst are the V brakes. Great when they work on day one. But after that the cables rust, the pivots rust, parts fall off and the whole thing starts to malfunction.

I reckon 7 out of 10 Halfords cycles I lay my hands on, have non functioning brakes. They just don't stop anymore. I'm not talking about reduced stopping power. It's brakes that have no speed reduction effect at all. You won't believe it until you see it. It's a crime. And so is selling bicycles with this quality. Halfords should be ashamed of themselves.

The paper reports we give to the children after their bike fix up, well, the comments we write down are usually very, very embarrassing for their parents.