Looking for some ideas with regards to a custom Ti frame to replace my hummer. I've checked out a few and just wondered if i had missed any, which i'm sure i have. Would particularly like to hear about any UK based builders. Also looking for someone likely to be building using the BB30 design. A few builders i know of already are IF (can't do BB30), Seven, DeKerf (will do BB30), Dean, Kent Eriksen, Strong, Serotta, Moots, Lynskey, Merlin, Litespeed, Sycip.
Custom Ti frame builders and BB30
- Thread starter haggis
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rory breaker
Retro Guru
I can't recommend Seven highly enough, they built me a sweet frame, even though the distributor thought he knew more about Seven than they did. I'm sure it'll last for ever.
As for BB30 have no idea if Seven make them - but IMHO its a fad being pushed along by Cannondale - how many other manufacturers are using (say) leftys.....
RB
As for BB30 have no idea if Seven make them - but IMHO its a fad being pushed along by Cannondale - how many other manufacturers are using (say) leftys.....
RB
BB30
I had a wee read of this article below rory which got me looking into the bb30 thing and i remember reading on here from Rody that this is due to be the industry standard by 2010,
http://velonews.com/article/13862
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... light=bb30
I had a wee read of this article below rory which got me looking into the bb30 thing and i remember reading on here from Rody that this is due to be the industry standard by 2010,
http://velonews.com/article/13862
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... light=bb30
rory breaker
Retro Guru
Maybe in my suspicious outlook on the world, I see that this is just another marketing exercise to add another 'standard' to get folk to buy new kit......
Look at ISIS - this was being touted as the new BB std a few years back, it's now virtually dead.
If its future proofing your frame that you are looking for, I reckon going with BB30 now is the wrong way, because 'std' BB replacelments will be around for many years, think how many bikes there are in the world with std BBs....
But if you bought a BB30 frame, and it doesn't catch on, then in 5 years time where do you get your BB from?
Only time will tell (and the marketing budget of Cannondale - I guess).
Look at ISIS - this was being touted as the new BB std a few years back, it's now virtually dead.
If its future proofing your frame that you are looking for, I reckon going with BB30 now is the wrong way, because 'std' BB replacelments will be around for many years, think how many bikes there are in the world with std BBs....
But if you bought a BB30 frame, and it doesn't catch on, then in 5 years time where do you get your BB from?
Only time will tell (and the marketing budget of Cannondale - I guess).
Here's a bit more reading for ya...
http://www.bb30standard.com/
BB30 has already been adopted by most of the major manufacturers for 2010...who is not happy about it? The Big S, as it's their business that stands to suffer the most from the innovation.
The bearings used for BB30 bottom brackets are available internationally and are of a typical size, so any customer may have access to replacement parts for years to come. One of the reasons the "standard" is so popular with builders...there is no propriatary supply issues.
As for Ti builders that have actually worked with BB30 designs, I'd also look into Darren Crisp in Italy, Steve Potts in Cali, and little ol me
So sorry, not familiar with any guys in the UK.
cheers,
rody
http://www.bb30standard.com/
BB30 has already been adopted by most of the major manufacturers for 2010...who is not happy about it? The Big S, as it's their business that stands to suffer the most from the innovation.
The bearings used for BB30 bottom brackets are available internationally and are of a typical size, so any customer may have access to replacement parts for years to come. One of the reasons the "standard" is so popular with builders...there is no propriatary supply issues.
As for Ti builders that have actually worked with BB30 designs, I'd also look into Darren Crisp in Italy, Steve Potts in Cali, and little ol me
So sorry, not familiar with any guys in the UK.
cheers,
rody
sastusbulbas
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Steve Potts welding looks superb.
My own take on the BB30 thing is why bother, it will probably be another decade before anything makes a dent on what we have now, and as for everything since the square taper, well they have all had their problems and many designs have led us back round to why compact low profile crank sets became popular.
Just about every modern crank is too bulky, and scuffs with heels or worse in technical sections your heel ends up ON the bloody thing. Too many designers with new ideas and not enough history lessons to see the swings and roundabouts, and too much new stuff just for the money.
My personal favorite titanium frames were just about anything made by Sandvik, superb fishscale welds, spot on alignment, well finished and usually sensible money.
The main reason I did not mind selling my DEAN was it did not suit longer travel forks and most new forks back then were a little tall for it, riding and components progressed and to keep up with the newer styles and types of trails and such, change had to be made.
Quite simply my 98 Specialized 17" stumpy M2 had better angles and geometry and was far more use in more situations. Regardless of how lovely my Ti bike was.
I then found the newer Merlin XLM to be a lot poorer in quality and construction than the early 90's models as I also found Lightspeed. And when these companies finally caught on to newer geometry the goal posts had yet again moved.
I liked Seven, but thought a little expensive and no simple off the peg V brake only sollution, and Serotta looked superb but seem to have changed.
Interesting thing is every Ti frame I looked at since the DEAN seems to be left short due to changes such as disc mounts, long travel geometry, strange seat pin sizes, company ownership issues, tube profiles and over sizing geometries etc.
Still would like a 17" long top tube V-brake only Ti frame with UK thread 68mm BB capable of 80mm - 100mm 1-1/8th forks and a 27.2 seat pin at a sensible price with the sort of welding DEAN, IBIS, and Mojo offer. Will it happen? I doubt it, what use will it serve apart from vanity.
And as for most new Ti frames, they look nothing more than fashionable, the Hummer reminds me of the Owl Hollow and Mongoose Pro ti frames of old, and the slack head angles remind me of how many of those old Ti frames looked with long forks which the frame was not designed for. Was the Hummer ever anything more than an old design which turned out to have a suitable role and therefor got rebranded and subtly refined? Cotic Soda? 1 year guarantee and similar construction to late DEAN's but with the addition of gussets? Is it only a re-inforced XC frame?
So the reality is, IF I do get another Ti frame it will be based on what I can get that is current,long, compact, takes discs and modern forks which will serve me for a few years.
Most Titanium frames, and new technologies such as the BB30 are nothing more then new consumer angles to rake in customers, we don't seem to have that commitment to quality product with a reasonable useable life span anymore, how can we in the fast paced consumer market?
Still qute a few square taper users in existence, who can also use Isis, or Octalink, or just about every other BB designed for a 68mm english thread BB, when and if the Chainset they have gets so worn as to warrant a change.
Not quite as easy with modern forks on old frames though. So my own opinion is stick with what is current, until enough have adopted a new standard to make it acceptable, and remember every year something will change anyway.
Then again, the reality is most are in it for the looks and such, even if new bikes serve nothing more than a years use before resale and the purchase of next years model for another years use.
Press in bearings in oversize BMX bottom bracket shells again anyone?
My own take on the BB30 thing is why bother, it will probably be another decade before anything makes a dent on what we have now, and as for everything since the square taper, well they have all had their problems and many designs have led us back round to why compact low profile crank sets became popular.
Just about every modern crank is too bulky, and scuffs with heels or worse in technical sections your heel ends up ON the bloody thing. Too many designers with new ideas and not enough history lessons to see the swings and roundabouts, and too much new stuff just for the money.
My personal favorite titanium frames were just about anything made by Sandvik, superb fishscale welds, spot on alignment, well finished and usually sensible money.
The main reason I did not mind selling my DEAN was it did not suit longer travel forks and most new forks back then were a little tall for it, riding and components progressed and to keep up with the newer styles and types of trails and such, change had to be made.
Quite simply my 98 Specialized 17" stumpy M2 had better angles and geometry and was far more use in more situations. Regardless of how lovely my Ti bike was.
I then found the newer Merlin XLM to be a lot poorer in quality and construction than the early 90's models as I also found Lightspeed. And when these companies finally caught on to newer geometry the goal posts had yet again moved.
I liked Seven, but thought a little expensive and no simple off the peg V brake only sollution, and Serotta looked superb but seem to have changed.
Interesting thing is every Ti frame I looked at since the DEAN seems to be left short due to changes such as disc mounts, long travel geometry, strange seat pin sizes, company ownership issues, tube profiles and over sizing geometries etc.
Still would like a 17" long top tube V-brake only Ti frame with UK thread 68mm BB capable of 80mm - 100mm 1-1/8th forks and a 27.2 seat pin at a sensible price with the sort of welding DEAN, IBIS, and Mojo offer. Will it happen? I doubt it, what use will it serve apart from vanity.
And as for most new Ti frames, they look nothing more than fashionable, the Hummer reminds me of the Owl Hollow and Mongoose Pro ti frames of old, and the slack head angles remind me of how many of those old Ti frames looked with long forks which the frame was not designed for. Was the Hummer ever anything more than an old design which turned out to have a suitable role and therefor got rebranded and subtly refined? Cotic Soda? 1 year guarantee and similar construction to late DEAN's but with the addition of gussets? Is it only a re-inforced XC frame?
So the reality is, IF I do get another Ti frame it will be based on what I can get that is current,long, compact, takes discs and modern forks which will serve me for a few years.
Most Titanium frames, and new technologies such as the BB30 are nothing more then new consumer angles to rake in customers, we don't seem to have that commitment to quality product with a reasonable useable life span anymore, how can we in the fast paced consumer market?
Still qute a few square taper users in existence, who can also use Isis, or Octalink, or just about every other BB designed for a 68mm english thread BB, when and if the Chainset they have gets so worn as to warrant a change.
Not quite as easy with modern forks on old frames though. So my own opinion is stick with what is current, until enough have adopted a new standard to make it acceptable, and remember every year something will change anyway.
Then again, the reality is most are in it for the looks and such, even if new bikes serve nothing more than a years use before resale and the purchase of next years model for another years use.
Press in bearings in oversize BMX bottom bracket shells again anyone?
if square taper WAS the universal standard there wont be any "standard" in a few years but many variants , trek, specialized, c'dale are all doing similiar but not exactly the same. now that the bullseye patent has expired they'll certainly be a lot more thru axle style cranks becoming the new standard. as a long time devoted square taper user i've made the leap to thru axle cranks on all my modern bikes as you can definitely feel the difference. now that both phil wood & chris king are dabbling in replacement bottom brackets & bearings you know you'll get a decent (square taper like!) lifespan
as ever I'd suggest test rides as theres a massive variance in ride feel between the brands already suggested.
just to agree with a few points made above, i've not long sold a potts & yes the welding is pretty good, ditto with seven. merlin & litespeed in recent years however is quite the opposite. that black sheep above is gorgeous, in the extremely rare event that I'd need another cruiser that would be on the list
as ever I'd suggest test rides as theres a massive variance in ride feel between the brands already suggested.
just to agree with a few points made above, i've not long sold a potts & yes the welding is pretty good, ditto with seven. merlin & litespeed in recent years however is quite the opposite. that black sheep above is gorgeous, in the extremely rare event that I'd need another cruiser that would be on the list
BB30 looks very interesting.
I don't understand the fear of jumping on new technology/interfaces?
If you own and enjoy the bike for a few years before the technology is superceded then you have had that fun from it and nobody can take that away. If you think it's a better design and will do what you want then why wait?
From what I can see, as long as the bearings are still available the design will not go away. All those old Merlin's and Klein's with the press fit bearings are still on the go.
I'd love to be in the position to order a custom Ti frame... I've never even owned an off the shelf Ti frame. The only custom frame I had built for me is my Nicolai beast, and it is so good that I would not hesitate to buy another - I know what I like geometry wise.
The options are so huge these days. Superlight or strong etc... which way to go?
Replacing a Hummer? Are you looking for a direct replacement or something modified or personalised? What issues do you have with the Hummer that you want changed? Or is it just that Hummers are too common amongst your riding buddies :roll:
A frame with "Strong" on the downtube would probably suit my riding style
I don't understand the fear of jumping on new technology/interfaces?
If you own and enjoy the bike for a few years before the technology is superceded then you have had that fun from it and nobody can take that away. If you think it's a better design and will do what you want then why wait?
From what I can see, as long as the bearings are still available the design will not go away. All those old Merlin's and Klein's with the press fit bearings are still on the go.
I'd love to be in the position to order a custom Ti frame... I've never even owned an off the shelf Ti frame. The only custom frame I had built for me is my Nicolai beast, and it is so good that I would not hesitate to buy another - I know what I like geometry wise.
The options are so huge these days. Superlight or strong etc... which way to go?
Replacing a Hummer? Are you looking for a direct replacement or something modified or personalised? What issues do you have with the Hummer that you want changed? Or is it just that Hummers are too common amongst your riding buddies :roll:
A frame with "Strong" on the downtube would probably suit my riding style
messiah":u1x03dj5 said:A frame with "Strong" on the downtube would probably suit my riding style
http://www.strongframes.com/frames_&_pricing/mtb/
why not, they do some nice stuff
