Coolwall Jan 2011 - Shimano MTB groupsets

[Neil]

Re: Well!

OK so you come back with yet more examples

- Which are basically the same so just for fun I'll get into three of them at random

Let pick Alfas off that list, Dean Martin and the Fonz Ehhhhhh to complete the trio

The Fonz was Henry Winkler a forty year old dude who was pretending to be in High School, what was his game eh? nuff said

Dean Martin? What the hell is cool about Dean Martin? Did he have any talents?

Alfa! Most car nuts will have owned one in their lifetime cos it's attainable Italiano, will learn their lesson and never buy another

Unreliable, rust-bucket rubbish with resale prices that fall faster than a skydiver with a concrete parachute - Because of those facts

They are not Ferrari or Lamborghini

And now this debate (between us) has become purely about the nature of cool

Therefore utterly irrelevant to the coolwall question!

I think if we see anyone else have a similar debate in any future coolwalls we should point them here

That'd teach 'em!

The problem with all of that, though, is you've evaluated all of those examples - you've used some rationale, some value, some measure. And to be blunt - being "cool" isn't about any of those things - actually, in several of the critiques you've given above, despite, or because of, many of those factors.

That is exactly where you're going wrong.

 

[pete_mcc]

^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part

That was me being facetious. It's one of my many flaws, being too subtle ;-)

Don't be distracted, though - just 'cos I said it in jest, doesn't make it any less true.

So is the " - for you

Au contraire...

I'm merely parroting the general concept of "cool", and the one which this one begs, borrows and steals from - the TG coolwall.

Not 'facts' or 'truths'

How is it not true that the concept of "cool" is distinct and different from being "something I like" or "something I think is good"? Otherwise, we'd just have a likewall or a goodwall.doesn't make it any less true" facetious, also?

Probably not - not sure facetiousness was quite where I was going, there.

Cos "true" is synomymous with "FACT"

I think there's a subtle difference, though.

Just because I may have been being facetious, arrogant, hubristic, doesn't detract from it actually being true...

What you have described is a personal opinion on what the criteria are for coolness

But we don't. We have a coolwall, for all it's glory, charm, and failings.

- And to be honest your post is highly dictatorial

Oh but that was part of it's charm.
The great thing is when people quote then it all gets so messy and you can write any old shit and no one reads it, or if they do then you're a boring person. So let's test it out... All low end and mid range bikes are shit, and the people who ride them are proles, oh and here's a ;0) so people dont think I'm serious but realise that I am just proving a point, towit quotes are shit.
And
It offers plenty of insight.

FACT.

That is utterly uncool

See what I mean about not really getting it?
it was deliberate.

And from the reading of your reply, it worked ;-)

- And doesn't offer any insight whatsoever

Sorry, gotta take issue with you, there.

Not adding any insight would actually contribute to it being cool.

You can have a different criteria for cool if you want. But you can't tell me that you have the truth. I personally think your criteria is bollocks

Good for you.

How's that working out for you?

You should have read some previous posts perhaps to see that it is alreday acknowledged not everyone has same criteria for things being 'cool'

That's OK - everybody has the right to be wrong.

But fair play - people not wanting to really get it, is no sin. But what they, and from the sounds of it, you, really want is a "I LIKE" wall, or a "goodwall".

However, it is my opinion that if given free choice you go out select stuff for use on your precious steeds - and you have gone and selected stuff that your 'truth' and 'facts' tell you are uncool...

Then I'd be intrigued to read an explanation of that

1. I'm far from convinced you'd be intrigued.

2. Whether I understand "cool", or not, doesn't mean I live my life by it, or even buy into such a nebulous, peurile notion.

If Shimano isn't cool to you, get rid of it all... Do it... Do it now

You still don't really get this "cool" thing, do you.

Shimano isn't cool, simply because on the whole, it isn't. Doesn't mean it isn't good. Doesn't mean I don't like some of it. Doesn't mean I'm remotely concerned if all my bikes are uncool or have uncool bits on.

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:

Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?

Not so much an insult as an observation.

The problem I have is the arsey way you have tried to patronise. I'm not sure you would recognise this in yourself though? A little like a smart arse school teacher that talks b******* for a living.

The thing is, I bet you're a top bloke face to face. It's just a shame you feel the need to kick the a*** out of a subject that is boring to start with.

al.

ps I'm going to send you a pm so you can swear at me as much as you feel fit.

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:

Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?

Not so much an insult as an observation.

The problem I have is the arsey way you have tried to patronise. I'm not sure you would recognise this in yourself though? A little like a smart arse school teacher that talks b******* for a living.

The thing is, I bet you're a top bloke face to face. It's just a shame you feel the need to kick the a*** out of a subject that is boring to start with.

al.

ps I'm going to send you a pm so you can swear at me as much as you feel fit.

I'll quickly respond here before getting your PM

- Good thing to do by the way

I saw your earlier posts and saw some people attacking them, but didn't get on to you

I noticed you sniping at my posts every now and then but didn't bite, well until it became direct!

Maybe if it's getting too *whatever* for you, you could have unsubscribed?

And yeah I know how I talked - It was because I felt it necessary

I know I'm a smart arse git and I'm not ashamed of it!

I'm sure you're a top bloke face to face, Also

But yeah no bother here, Al - It's just a forum - I love debate!

Edit:

Thanks for the PM Al

You're views make sense

I hope we get to talk again in future

:!:

 

[CAPIN]

 

[GoldenEraMTB]

^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part

That was me being facetious. It's one of my many flaws, being too subtle ;-)

Don't be distracted, though - just 'cos I said it in jest, doesn't make it any less true.

So is the " - for you

Au contraire...

I'm merely parroting the general concept of "cool", and the one which this one begs, borrows and steals from - the TG coolwall.

Not 'facts' or 'truths'

How is it not true that the concept of "cool" is distinct and different from being "something I like" or "something I think is good"? Otherwise, we'd just have a likewall or a goodwall.doesn't make it any less true" facetious, also?

Probably not - not sure facetiousness was quite where I was going, there.

Cos "true" is synomymous with "FACT"

I think there's a subtle difference, though.

Just because I may have been being facetious, arrogant, hubristic, doesn't detract from it actually being true...

What you have described is a personal opinion on what the criteria are for coolness

But we don't. We have a coolwall, for all it's glory, charm, and failings.

- And to be honest your post is highly dictatorial

Oh but that was part of it's charm.
The great thing is when people quote then it all gets so messy and you can write any old shit and no one reads it, or if they do then you're a boring person. So let's test it out... All low end and mid range bikes are shit, and the people who ride them are proles, oh and here's a ;0) so people dont think I'm serious but realise that I am just proving a point, towit quotes are shit.
And
It offers plenty of insight.

FACT.

That is utterly uncool

See what I mean about not really getting it?
it was deliberate.

And from the reading of your reply, it worked ;-)

- And doesn't offer any insight whatsoever

Sorry, gotta take issue with you, there.

Not adding any insight would actually contribute to it being cool.

You can have a different criteria for cool if you want. But you can't tell me that you have the truth. I personally think your criteria is bollocks

Good for you.

How's that working out for you?

You should have read some previous posts perhaps to see that it is alreday acknowledged not everyone has same criteria for things being 'cool'

That's OK - everybody has the right to be wrong.

But fair play - people not wanting to really get it, is no sin. But what they, and from the sounds of it, you, really want is a "I LIKE" wall, or a "goodwall".

However, it is my opinion that if given free choice you go out select stuff for use on your precious steeds - and you have gone and selected stuff that your 'truth' and 'facts' tell you are uncool...

Then I'd be intrigued to read an explanation of that

1. I'm far from convinced you'd be intrigued.

2. Whether I understand "cool", or not, doesn't mean I live my life by it, or even buy into such a nebulous, peurile notion.

If Shimano isn't cool to you, get rid of it all... Do it... Do it now

You still don't really get this "cool" thing, do you.

Shimano isn't cool, simply because on the whole, it isn't. Doesn't mean it isn't good. Doesn't mean I don't like some of it. Doesn't mean I'm remotely concerned if all my bikes are uncool or have uncool bits on.

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:

Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?

Not so much an insult as an observation.

The problem I have is the arsey way you have tried to patronise. I'm not sure you would recognise this in yourself though? A little like a smart arse school teacher that talks b******* for a living.

The thing is, I bet you're a top bloke face to face. It's just a shame you feel the need to kick the a*** out of a subject that is boring to start with.

al.

ps I'm going to send you a pm so you can swear at me as much as you feel fit.

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:

Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?

Not so much an insult as an observation.

The problem I have is the arsey way you have tried to patronise. I'm not sure you would recognise this in yourself though? A little like a smart arse school teacher that talks b******* for a living.

The thing is, I bet you're a top bloke face to face. It's just a shame you feel the need to kick the a*** out of a subject that is boring to start with.

al.

ps I'm going to send you a pm so you can swear at me as much as you feel fit.

I'll quickly respond here before getting your PM

- Good thing to do by the way

I saw your earlier posts and saw some people attacking them, but didn't get on to you

I noticed you sniping at my posts every now and then but didn't bite, well until it became direct!

Maybe if it's getting too *whatever* for you, you could have unsubscribed?

And yeah I know how I talked - It was because I felt it necessary

I know I'm a smart arse git and I'm not ashamed of it!

I'm sure you're a top bloke face to face, Also

But yeah no bother here, Al - It's just a forum - I love debate!

Edit:

Thanks for the PM Al

You're views make sense

I hope we get to talk again in future

:!:

I was compelled to quote this; can't explain why.

 

[hydorah]

Post of genius

pete_mcc: Awesome!

 

[hydorah]

Re: Well!

The problem with all of that, though, is you've evaluated all of those examples - you've used some rationale, some value, some measure. And to be blunt - being "cool" isn't about any of those things - actually, in several of the critiques you've given above, despite, or because of, many of those factors.

That is exactly where you're going wrong.

Neil, YOU are stating various things and people as being cool, if any discussion is made of YOUR judegments of cool, that person is going wrong

Your words not mine

I'm trying to be conciliatory, but you just can't stop restating this notion of universal cool that you cooked up

Pete's post is a good hint, it's time for both of us to stop going on and on

If you wanna carry on bantering feel free to PM

 

[Neil]

Re: Well!

The problem with all of that, though, is you've evaluated all of those examples - you've used some rationale, some value, some measure. And to be blunt - being "cool" isn't about any of those things - actually, in several of the critiques you've given above, despite, or because of, many of those factors.

That is exactly where you're going wrong.

Neil, YOU are stating various things and people as being cool, if any discussion is made of YOUR judegments of cool, that person is going wrong

Your words not mine

And I've stuck by that - I haven't examined the example as to why - because it's intangible.

When somebody posted a picture of Miles Davis to the thread, did you dispute that? Did you weigh up the pros and cons? Or do people simply know what is cool - perhaps without even being able to vocalise as to why?

 

[hydorah]

Co incidence

The Miles davis pic coincided with my perception of cool

- I typed a massive post escalating this right back up again

but I threw it away

Suffice it to say I have adequately demonstrated that one mans 'cool' can very well be another man's 'so-so' or even 'crap'

I don't expect you to agree that that can be so. It isn't so for you

For you?

Cool is cool it's universal, everyone knows it when they encounter it - but can't define it and as soon as soon as you anlayse it? Poof it's gone!

Can't be cool if you had to think about it

See? I do get what you are saying

I simply DO NOT agree

I do not agree with the universality of cool as a claim

I do not agree that discussion and analysis is proof of uncool

I also feel this is off tangental to what we've been asked

But it doesn't mean I want to attack you, or to be attacked, nor do I think that ought to be so

We're on a forum and I'm conscious we're filling people's screens with something that is getting nowhere. We're not going to batter down one another's ideas, certainly not gracefully

I think we can all agree that all this back and forth is not cool

It's way past time to get on with our lives!

 

[Neil]

Re: Co incidence

The Miles davis pic coincided with my perception of cool

Ok.

So when you saw the pic, did you have to analyse it, weigh up the pros and cons of Mile Davis as a jazz musician, or did you simply look at the photo, realise who it was, and required no further deliberation to recognise "cool"?

Be honest.

 

[hydorah]

Honest

Honest answer to a good question:

I already had done, so no there was no deliberation required

I've heard some of his stuff and like it, I can detect his influence on others... I can even hear Miles' samples in Terminator X's work on Public Enemy records

All that was already in my head in relation to Miles Davis, so cool, no bother (in my opinion) judgements and opinions already formed

Had I not known who he was, I would have gone and found out, had a listen then formed an opinion, principally on whether his music sounded good/interesting - That's not made up, I really would have done that

I'm gonna watch 'Pirates of Silicon Valley' that someone else mentioned, because someone felt it relevant to something that was being said in this thread

Just the way I do stuff. I like to know things and I try to have as good an understanding of myself - and others - as possible