Conversion to 2 x 10 speed - The itch that wasn't there

[paullincoln]

Dear community,
I thought i'd share my recent endeavour. I recently converted my De Rosa Professional SLX with full Shimano 600 Tricolore 2 x 7 speed group set to a 2 x 10 speed.

What you'll need

10 speed cassette for the rear
10 speed shifters (mines Shimano Dura Ace 7900 braze on down tube shifters)
10 speed Dura Ace chain
10 speed derailleur (I've chosen Shimano Ultegra 6600, it has an openable cage for easy chain swap)
10 speed inner chainring (similarly Shimano Ultegra 6600 39 teeth with 130 BCD)

Why?

10 speed cassette... well thats what its all about, but before you start you have to make sure you have a free hub that supports the use of a lock ring at the end.

10 speed shifters .. I opted for down tube shifters so that I could continue using my NOS 6400 brake levers and keep a classic look to the bike

10 speed chain... the spacing of the cogs of the rear cassette will not work well with the 7 speed chain.

10 speed derailleur.... though you could get away with the 7 speed derailleur but you will have front shifting issues at the extremes and rubbing or the chain falling off the big chainring. essentially the cage of the derailleur is too wide for the narrow 10 speed chain. so there is never quite a perfect setup possible.

10 speed inner chainring... this was the one that I debated on the most. Didn't open the CRC package until I was absolutely certain it was needed. Here's what happened with the original 7 speed inner ring... on the smallest cog in the rear, shifting from front big chainring to small chainring, the narrow chain falls somewhere in-between the big and small chainring causing chain suck and jamming your crank. The 10 speed small chainring is closer to the big chainring preventing this.
Beware of 6700 chainrings. There is some funky thing happening with the tooth design. They have specific A or B design chainrings that you need to choose depending on the tooth count of your large chainring. I don't know whether it will work. I didn't venture there.

So there you have it.. I scratched an itch that wasn't there.... Do I like it.. yes, I appreciate the gentle graduation of cadence, but would I do it again... perhaps if I was going a full retro-modern build I would, but next time, i'll keep the 2 x 7 speed setup and enjoy the bike as it is with the complete period group set intact. I guess I'm OCD like that.

 

[mattr]

10 speed derailleur (I've chosen Shimano Ultegra 6600, it has an openable cage for easy chain swap)
.........
Beware of 6700 chainrings. There is some funky thing happening with the tooth design. They have specific A or B design chainrings that you need to choose depending on the tooth count of your large chainring. I don't know whether it will work. I didn't venture there

get a chain with a quick link. No need for unscrewing bolts and losing bits of jockey wheel. AFAIK every mech I have ever seen or had, has an "openable cage".

The type a and type b chainring pairings have been around since at least 8 speed, it's most critical to match the pair, if you are using a standard outer ring, it won't matter which inner you have.

 

[bugloss]

I think you need to post a full set of photographs as it's something I'm interested in doing.

 

[paullincoln]

10 speed derailleur (I've chosen Shimano Ultegra 6600, it has an openable cage for easy chain swap)
.........
Beware of 6700 chainrings. There is some funky thing happening with the tooth design. They have specific A or B design chainrings that you need to choose depending on the tooth count of your large chainring. I don't know whether it will work. I didn't venture there

get a chain with a quick link. No need for unscrewing bolts and losing bits of jockey wheel. AFAIK every mech I have ever seen or had, has an "openable cage".

The type a and type b chainring pairings have been around since at least 8 speed, it's most critical to match the pair, if you are using a standard outer ring, it won't matter which inner you have.

Yes thats a brilliant suggestion and it was exactly what I did. I got a KMC Magic Link on my Dura Ace chain. With regards to an openable cage, the new Ultegra 6700 and low end Claris both do not have an openable cage. They have now been riveted shut. Pity.

Either way the 6600 was chosen because of the cage, because the words 'ultegra' were less conspicuous and it was less bulky than the 6700 Ultegra.

With regards to A & B rings, there didn't seem to be any choice of options with the purchase of my 6600 rings. maybe CRC didn't list it.

 

[paullincoln]

I think you need to post a full set of photographs as it's something I'm interested in doing.

I'll do that. At the moment i'm fighting with Flickr log in (for image posting) but as soon as it's sorted i'll post some photos.

 

[mattr]

Ah. You mean front mech.
My mistake!

 

[bm0p700f]

Also a 130mm spacing on the rear helps otherwise some stay spreading is needed. I am a bit scared of spreading the stays on my Alan so that out. My trek has a 10 speed groupset on it but I have used 8 speed D/T shifter with the friction/SIS switch. I am using friction shifter which is far better than indexing as I can run an 11 speed cassette if I wanted to (my hubs are compatible) and I will when this 10 speed cassette wears out. Also old 8 speed shifters are cheaper than D/A D/T shifters.

 

[paullincoln]

Also a 130mm spacing on the rear helps otherwise some stay spreading is needed. I am a bit scared of spreading the stays on my Alan so that out. My trek has a 10 speed groupset on it but I have used 8 speed D/T shifter with the friction/SIS switch. I am using friction shifter which is far better than indexing as I can run an 11 speed cassette if I wanted to (my hubs are compatible) and I will when this 10 speed cassette wears out. Also old 8 speed shifters are cheaper than D/A D/T shifters.

That reminds me, the Dura Ace 7900 10 speed Down tube shifters are a click click affair only. Pure SIS indexing, no option to switch to friction. Which is what I forgot to mention.

Like you, I could have continued using my 600 tricolore d/t shifters as it has SIS/Friction, but I was initially concerned that friction on a 10 would be difficult and I do like SIS anyway. Has it been easy to shift with friction on a 10?

 

[paullincoln]

Dear community,
I thought i'd share my recent endeavour. I recently converted my De Rosa Professional SLX with full Shimano 600 Tricolore 2 x 7 speed group set to a 2 x 10 speed.

What you'll need

10 speed cassette for the rear
10 speed shifters (mines Shimano Dura Ace 7900 braze on down tube shifters)
10 speed Dura Ace chain
10 speed derailleur (I've chosen Shimano Ultegra 6600, it has an openable cage for easy chain swap)
10 speed inner chainring (similarly Shimano Ultegra 6600 39 teeth with 130 BCD)

Why?

10 speed cassette... well thats what its all about, but before you start you have to make sure you have a free hub that supports the use of a lock ring at the end.

10 speed shifters .. I opted for down tube shifters so that I could continue using my NOS 6400 brake levers and keep a classic look to the bike

10 speed chain... the spacing of the cogs of the rear cassette will not work well with the 7 speed chain.

10 speed derailleur.... though you could get away with the 7 speed derailleur but you will have front shifting issues at the extremes and rubbing or the chain falling off the big chainring. essentially the cage of the derailleur is too wide for the narrow 10 speed chain. so there is never quite a perfect setup possible.

10 speed inner chainring... this was the one that I debated on the most. Didn't open the CRC package until I was absolutely certain it was needed. Here's what happened with the original 7 speed inner ring... on the smallest cog in the rear, shifting from front big chainring to small chainring, the narrow chain falls somewhere in-between the big and small chainring causing chain suck and jamming your crank. The 10 speed small chainring is closer to the big chainring preventing this.
Beware of 6700 chainrings. There is some funky thing happening with the tooth design. They have specific A or B design chainrings that you need to choose depending on the tooth count of your large chainring. I don't know whether it will work. I didn't venture there.

So there you have it.. I scratched an itch that wasn't there.... Do I like it.. yes, I appreciate the gentle graduation of cadence, but would I do it again... perhaps if I was going a full retro-modern build I would, but next time, i'll keep the 2 x 7 speed setup and enjoy the bike as it is with the complete period group set intact. I guess I'm OCD like that.

Here's the bike

L1060107 by paulblincoln, on Flickr

The Ultegra 6600 grey is a little darker than the 6400 grey, but fortunately the word 'Ultegra' is not too obvious. The inner chainring though listed as silver is grey too

L1060095 by paulblincoln, on Flickr

Its a full house back there

L1060096 by paulblincoln, on Flickr

These are the 7900 downtube shifters. Note: there is no friction selector

L1060098 by paulblincoln, on Flickr

the 6400 rear d playing nice with the new cassette and chain

L1060114 by paulblincoln, on Flickr

On a not so good note, the chain suck-like effect when rear cog is in the smallest and shifting from large chain ring to small still occurs. It's not as bad now though. Often it is unlikely that one would swap from large to small ring whilst on the 11 cog in the rear, the suck can take you by surprise. I wonder if this is symptomatic of 10 speed systems.

 

[bm0p700f]

10 speed shifting with a friction shifter is as easy as eating apple pie with custdard (I find the latter very easy indeed). Really I move the lever and it shifts I barely need to trim.

I keep on thinking about moving to the Trek to STI's but I dislike Shimano hood shapes so I won't.