Claud Butler-Holdsworth frame numbers 1959-1976
- Thread starter Peachy!
- Start date
ClaudButler61
Retro Newbie
Hi there , no it was not in stock and i remember having to wait quite a while for it as it was a special order 24” frame.
Nearly bought an orange Holdsworth that was in stock !
Seems like yesterday but now 43 yrs ago.
Nearly bought an orange Holdsworth that was in stock !
Seems like yesterday but now 43 yrs ago.
Nick,
Thanks that's helpful. So is it safe to assume must have been a few weeks/month after Easter that you received it???
Don't often get a frame with original purchase history at a defining point in serial system. Hence the "dog with a bone approach".
Like wise re memory and years. Back in 1973 I corresponded from Canada with a fellow by name of Robert Badger (Robert's Rebuilds) of Crouch End, London re building a touring bike from a Holdsworth frame to my specs. I believe I arrived in London in late May or June to pick up bike - don't remember exactly. Spent 3 months touring England and Europe. This was a big event in my life and only reason I remember year at all is because it was last summer I was free before I spent the next 41 years working!
Doug
Thanks that's helpful. So is it safe to assume must have been a few weeks/month after Easter that you received it???
Don't often get a frame with original purchase history at a defining point in serial system. Hence the "dog with a bone approach".
Like wise re memory and years. Back in 1973 I corresponded from Canada with a fellow by name of Robert Badger (Robert's Rebuilds) of Crouch End, London re building a touring bike from a Holdsworth frame to my specs. I believe I arrived in London in late May or June to pick up bike - don't remember exactly. Spent 3 months touring England and Europe. This was a big event in my life and only reason I remember year at all is because it was last summer I was free before I spent the next 41 years working!
Doug
ClaudButler61
Retro Newbie
Hi Doug you are right it could have been early May before i finally received it.i remember the weather was better in London so immediately started to cycle to school with it and how proud i was.
Yes time flies for us all , am now 57 and working for a large IT firm just outside Munich in Germany still enjoying my bikes and and am completing a restauration on an Etype Jaguar so plenty of things to keep me busy.
Was in Canada west coast last year and enjoyed Bannf ,Whistler and finally Vancover i felt it was like home a touch of old English charm.
Would like to go back sometime for another look.
Enjoying the summer at present .
Nick Jones
Yes time flies for us all , am now 57 and working for a large IT firm just outside Munich in Germany still enjoying my bikes and and am completing a restauration on an Etype Jaguar so plenty of things to keep me busy.
Was in Canada west coast last year and enjoyed Bannf ,Whistler and finally Vancover i felt it was like home a touch of old English charm.
Would like to go back sometime for another look.
Enjoying the summer at present .
Nick Jones
Nick
I've been back to Cornwall, Scotland, NW Ireland and Italy bike touring since the big trip as a youth. Love spending time over that way. Partner's son lives in Kiel, Germany and we hope to get over, maybe combine with a bike tour while still can.
The revised prediction, based on your new data, would have your frame being built (stamped) around late March '76. This is an estimate as hard to know the actual build date. Frame could have lay in factory stock or perhaps was a freshly built frame at time of order. Any thoughts?
Thanks for info,
Doug Allen
I've been back to Cornwall, Scotland, NW Ireland and Italy bike touring since the big trip as a youth. Love spending time over that way. Partner's son lives in Kiel, Germany and we hope to get over, maybe combine with a bike tour while still can.
The revised prediction, based on your new data, would have your frame being built (stamped) around late March '76. This is an estimate as hard to know the actual build date. Frame could have lay in factory stock or perhaps was a freshly built frame at time of order. Any thoughts?
Thanks for info,
Doug Allen
Peachy!
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**Update**
Date chart on page one updated.... jump change in numbering to avoid clash with Holdsworth frame moved from July 1967 to approx end of October with accompanying shuffle of numbers.
Date chart on page one updated.... jump change in numbering to avoid clash with Holdsworth frame moved from July 1967 to approx end of October with accompanying shuffle of numbers.
Kman
Dirt Disciple
Re:
Hello All, I've been trying to dig into the background history and a cyclocross frame my late father used in the 60's and 70's. (I also used in a junior in the early 90's).
It had been modified at some point with the fitment of mafac cantilever bosses and associated cable braze on's. It was also repainted, as there is evidence of gold paint under the red and yellow and also a light blue over spray inside the head tube.
Frame number 3881, Fork matches this.
Nervex Professional lugs.
Brev Simplex drop outs
Mafac braze on
I do not know for certain that it is a Claud Butler, but it does have a striking similarity to some Cordon Bleu examples of the early Holdsworth years.
I would be really interested to see what can be pieced together to give me an idea of how to bring it back to life.
Hello All, I've been trying to dig into the background history and a cyclocross frame my late father used in the 60's and 70's. (I also used in a junior in the early 90's).
It had been modified at some point with the fitment of mafac cantilever bosses and associated cable braze on's. It was also repainted, as there is evidence of gold paint under the red and yellow and also a light blue over spray inside the head tube.
Frame number 3881, Fork matches this.
Nervex Professional lugs.
Brev Simplex drop outs
Mafac braze on
I do not know for certain that it is a Claud Butler, but it does have a striking similarity to some Cordon Bleu examples of the early Holdsworth years.
I would be really interested to see what can be pieced together to give me an idea of how to bring it back to life.
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Hello Kman,
I’ve commented on the Holdsworth thread, but no problem doubling up here…
If someone said this was a 1959 Cordon Bleu that had new braze-ons added in the seventies to turn it into a path or grass racer I wouldn’t be surprised.
Perhaps the work was done by Colchester Cycles, the brazing work would certainly need a re-spray.
I’ve commented on the Holdsworth thread, but no problem doubling up here…
If someone said this was a 1959 Cordon Bleu that had new braze-ons added in the seventies to turn it into a path or grass racer I wouldn’t be surprised.
Perhaps the work was done by Colchester Cycles, the brazing work would certainly need a re-spray.
Agree, as number is actually 3881 this works for a predicted 1959 Claud Butler.
Oiler (as located on this frame) was usually seen on to top of BB for years 1959 to 1964 in Holdsworthy built frames.
Semi wrapover fluted seat stay caps were seen on other Cordon Bleu examples towards end of 1959. (Perhaps a 1960 model, built in 1959.) Flutes disappeared for 1962 model.
In 1959, Nervex Pro lugs as seen on Cordon Bleu appears to be only Holdsworthy model with these lugs. In prior few years had been on Cyclone. Pros persisted on Cordon Bleu until its end in 1970.
Cordon Bleu was the only Claud road model with no pump pegs or lamp post as this frame. It was sold as a frame only and would have been built up to choice.
Simplex gears were standard on Coureur and Challenge models so Simplex dropouts on a Cordon Bleu logical.
Cordon Bleu colour was also to choice with contrasting bands seat and head tube. Advertised with a metal head plate and would have had a Holdsworthy style CB signature badge on seat tube band as per catalogue.
Head badge hole placement as in your pic on Holdsworth number thread looks correct for a Claud badge. (Holdsworth model badge had identical placement at least on my own Claud and Holdsworths.)
Top of TT brake cable guides and Mafac Criterium brake spigots were seen on European model in 1959 and although not pictured in 59 era catalogues, Campagnolo bar end shifters were also around at that time.
So as said fits for a Cordon Bleu with later modifications perhaps by Colchester Cycles or a special/custom build at get go.
Do we know if Colchester Cycles were in to modifying and rebranding frames as this possible Cordon Bleu?
Oiler (as located on this frame) was usually seen on to top of BB for years 1959 to 1964 in Holdsworthy built frames.
Semi wrapover fluted seat stay caps were seen on other Cordon Bleu examples towards end of 1959. (Perhaps a 1960 model, built in 1959.) Flutes disappeared for 1962 model.
In 1959, Nervex Pro lugs as seen on Cordon Bleu appears to be only Holdsworthy model with these lugs. In prior few years had been on Cyclone. Pros persisted on Cordon Bleu until its end in 1970.
Cordon Bleu was the only Claud road model with no pump pegs or lamp post as this frame. It was sold as a frame only and would have been built up to choice.
Simplex gears were standard on Coureur and Challenge models so Simplex dropouts on a Cordon Bleu logical.
Cordon Bleu colour was also to choice with contrasting bands seat and head tube. Advertised with a metal head plate and would have had a Holdsworthy style CB signature badge on seat tube band as per catalogue.
Head badge hole placement as in your pic on Holdsworth number thread looks correct for a Claud badge. (Holdsworth model badge had identical placement at least on my own Claud and Holdsworths.)
Top of TT brake cable guides and Mafac Criterium brake spigots were seen on European model in 1959 and although not pictured in 59 era catalogues, Campagnolo bar end shifters were also around at that time.
So as said fits for a Cordon Bleu with later modifications perhaps by Colchester Cycles or a special/custom build at get go.
Do we know if Colchester Cycles were in to modifying and rebranding frames as this possible Cordon Bleu?
Kman
Dirt Disciple
Thank you for the clarification. Makes me more and more convinced of the origins.
Regarding Colchester Cycles Stores, they are still in business, have been since 1975. I think they were doing servicing and repairs before this, but I'll have to check. Quite plausible that it was modified and then repainted. Although I think the transfer came a bit later. As mentioned on the other thread. The 73 Holdsworth has the same transfers.
I know Brian, who has owned the shop since opening, so he maybe able to shed further light on it. There is another frame that I am yet to share details of, but it is also branded Colchester Cycles, but this was hand scripted. It's on a Roberts from the mid 70's.
Regarding the headbadge, would it of been the olympic ring version?
Kristian
Regarding Colchester Cycles Stores, they are still in business, have been since 1975. I think they were doing servicing and repairs before this, but I'll have to check. Quite plausible that it was modified and then repainted. Although I think the transfer came a bit later. As mentioned on the other thread. The 73 Holdsworth has the same transfers.
I know Brian, who has owned the shop since opening, so he maybe able to shed further light on it. There is another frame that I am yet to share details of, but it is also branded Colchester Cycles, but this was hand scripted. It's on a Roberts from the mid 70's.
Regarding the headbadge, would it of been the olympic ring version?
Kristian
